II - V patterns for C6/A6

[Einar Baldursson]

I got inspired by Guy Cundells post featuring the melody from Scrapple From The Apple in different positions and the discussion on jazz improvisation that followed was very interesting. There are a thousand ways to approach jazz improv of course which is part of what makes it so fun. However studying commonly recurring patterns such as II-V's in different locations on the fretboard is popular as a practice method. I got these from a jazz guitar book I've been practising out of for years. Hopefully this will be helpful to some. There are 6 pages in all so use the dropbox link for the full pdf.




https://www.dropbox.com/s/vrjem2ml772wi ... s.pdf?dl=0

[David Knutson]

Einar, these look like fun. Thanks for taking the time to translate it all. Some good right hand/blocking exercise in there as well.

[Guy Cundell]

Cool!

[David M Brown]

It's even "boppier"is you slur across the 8th notes sometimes; that is, pick the 8th note on the upbeat and slur to the downbeat 8th note.

https://nafme.org/teaching-jazz-articulation-style/

"This second example if often referred to as a “bebop” or “off-beat articulation.” While professional jazz players won’t use this articulation strictly, they will use versions of it to add definition to lines while maintaining the smooth, legato style."

[Einar Baldursson]

It's even "boppier"is you slur across the 8th notes sometimes; that is, pick the 8th note on the upbeat and slur to the downbeat 8th note.

That's true David. I didn't include any articulation as I view these licks as raw building blocks, but slurring into downbeats is extremely common and it even makes some of those phrases easier to play on the steel.

I should clarify that most of these phrases are just one bar long so each example includes repeats in different octaves and/or positions. For instance, when practising don't play example #1 as one continuous phrase. Take just one bar and play it in different keys. Also you can easily make them II V I's by adding Imaj7 material at the end of the phrase. For instance:

[David M Brown]

That's exactly what I had in mind! Thanks.

[Bill Leff]

Good stuff Einar. i have been practicing ii-V-I for the last few months on a 6 string tuned to C6 with high E. It has been a real learning experience for me and has highlighted my deficent knowledge of chords and arppegios on the steel guitar. On regular guitar, i can visualize chords and arps so much easier and navigate the neck effectively. My ability to do this on the steel is so much less, even though I have been playing for years. It's a humbling experience and good for the soul. Gaining a sense of mastery over this stuff, however slow, is very gratifying.

[David M Brown]

On regular guitar, i can visualize chords and arps so much easier and navigate the neck effectively. My ability to do this on the steel is so much less, even though I have been playing for years.

For many of us that have learned music on standard "Spanish" guitar, the switch to "Hawaiian"....uh, steel....guitar leaves us in the position you explain.

We know the way around EADGBE, and can make our fingers do all sorts of things - compared to using a steel bar on some sort of open tuning.

I think it's the variety of tunings that require steel players to really focus so as to know how to play the same stuff on the steel as is natural on guitar.

I can play arrangements in a variety of tunings (even C6) but really can only improvise in A6 (some B11), E7 and the BDEG#C#E version.

2 tunings with a variation on each, and mostly on 6 string instruments.

That's it - and I'm still working on those 2 tunings.

For those of you that use more complex tunings and 8 or more strings as a rule, more power to you!

[Einar Baldursson]

It's the same for me. I'm not sure I'll ever know C6 or C13 the way I know standard guitar tuning but at least it's fun trying, although with my meager skills I'm perfectly happy spending most of my time playing (or butchering) Hawaiian ballads. As for tunings there are so many possibilities in plain C6 that I could (and probably should) be perfectly happy with that. On the 8-string I find myself having a tough time deciding between Junior Brown C13th or Jules Ah See C13th, that is high G or high E (with a low C). The high G gives me some additional chords, a couple of great slants and more melodic choices - especially playing arpeggios. It is great for western swing but less useful perhaps for Hawaiian. The low C on the other hand is just plain fun - not always particularly useful in a playing situation but I do miss it when it's not there...

[Andy Volk]

On regular guitar, i can visualize chords and arps so much easier and navigate the neck effectively. My ability to do this on the steel is so much less, even though I have been playing for years.

Ditto and a pretty common thing for us converted guitar players. People who grew up with steel as their first and primary instrument have a leg up in this regard.

[Bill Leff]

One thing that helps is to sit down with both a standard guitar and the steel guitar. I play things on the standard guitar easily and then find them on the lap steel. This is an effective way for me to find the "pockets" I'm looking for on the steel.

[Andy Volk]

Here's a slightly modified version of the 8th-note arpeggio study that's in my Exploring C6th book as a study on the standard Night & Day. You likely wouldn't play an actual solo in an unending stream of 8th notes so it's meant for practicing arpeggios and working on flow of expression. These come largely from Mimi Fox's cool book on guitar arpeggios. (Link to MIDI audio of the study at the bottom of the post).





MIDI audio: http://picosong.com/W5KB

[Michael James]

When writing any kind of jazz line you need to have some syncopation. Make sure your line starts and/or stops on an up beat. If the start and end of the line are both on down beats your line will sound stiff.

[Andy Volk]

Yes. Uninflected 8th notes don't swing. The above is not intended as jazz, just an exercise. The late Jazz guitarist Emily Remler recommend practicing in 8th notes as a way to work on having a smooth steady flow recognizing that one wouldn't play jazz this way.

[Michael James]

The late Jazz guitarist Emily Remler recommend practicing in 8th notes as a way to work on having a smooth steady flow recognizing that one wouldn't play jazz this way.

I used to have that HotLicks video she made where she demonstrated that. I think she did it on Blue Bossa? which is not a swing, but still has some of the same language patterns as swing.
In the real world though when you play a long series of 8th notes the players almost always starts and/or ends the longs stream of notes on an up beat.
I'm not big believer in practicing thing your not going to use. Everything you practice should have a usable application.

[David M Brown]

I hesitate to make hard and fast rules about having to begin or end phrases a certain way.

It's more about the overall flow of the lines, where are the breathing spots, where should you accent the downbeat...and not....and so on.

Learning the rhythmic language of bop is interesting. I grew up listening to a lot of Parker, who in my mind set the model for bop phrasing.

So...I may pull out the old Omnibook and start getting my A6 steel sight-reading chops going again:

https://www.amazon.com/Charlie-Parker-O ... 0A7RHJJYWE

Anyway, such rules are great when playing exercises and practicing, but I would want more freedom on the bandstand.

[Michael James]

I hesitate to make hard and fast rules about having to begin or end phrases a certain way.
Anyway, such rules are great when playing exercises and practicing, but I would want more freedom on the bandstand.

Music is language and language has rules. Like it or not. We can push those rules if we understand the language. But in the end our music either speaks to people or it doesn't. And when it doesn't we need to ask ourselves, "Why?".
When I studied with David Baker he really open my eyes to many things I was doing wrong as a writer and as an improviser. He had rules that explained why thing didn't sound good, and those rules help me to break out of my bad language habits and develop new ones that better communicate to the listener my personal inner voice.
That was many years ago. These days I get on the stage 30 to 50 times a year and I just play, and it's so easy now, it's just like holding a conversation.
There are rules. If it sounds bad then it is bad. The big question is "How can I fix it so I don't sound bad again?"

[Andy Volk]

I'm not big believer in practicing thing your not going to use. Everything you practice should have a usable application.

Playing scales is like a boxer skipping rope or punching a bag. It's not the thing in itself; it's preparatory to the activity. - Barney Kessel

[David M Brown]

Music is language and language has rules. Like it or not. We can push those rules if we understand the language. But in the end our music either speaks to people or it doesn't. And when it doesn't we need to ask ourselves, "Why?".
When I studied with David Baker he really open my eyes to many things I was doing wrong as a writer and as an improviser. He had rules that explained why thing didn't sound good, and those rules help me to break out of my bad language habits and develop new ones that better communicate to the listener my personal inner voice. "

First, that was an excellent teacher to have.

Next, I was making my comment in the context of the language of jazz and in terms of learning it.

Rules about why musical things work or do not are great - I spent a lot of years studying the rules.

So I agree with your comments in terms of study.

I was just saying that in the real world, a "rule" about beginning and ending jazz phrases on upbeat 8th's is better as a practice room exercise.

[Michael James]

Hey David, Sorry if I didn't understand what you were saying.
mj

[David M Brown]

Hey David, Sorry if I didn't understand what you were saying.
mj

No problem - it's hard enough to talk about music, I just like to make myself clear.

[Stefan Robertson]

Man Barney Kessel is legendary.

And what I'm finding is the Major scales and the chromatic scale are now giving me a better BOP sound that I'm going for.

I am spending time trying to work on my proximity technique though. Hard as ever but its going slow but steady. I find its making it easier to improv but now I need to get used to straight melody playing. Which I have to admit is soooo boring.

I find I lose focus easily transcribing lines. But am finding that if I undesrstand the concept I can jam and sound more free using chromatic notes and a basic major scale.

Any tips for things like arpeggios as they are so dull and disconnected. I much like the never ending stream effect chromatic scales give. That's what I want.

Or do I have to suffer through triad and 7th arpeggios. Which for those that haven't tried aint easy on non pedal steel.

[David M Brown]

There's a lot to be said for using the major scale - the basic diatonic modes come from it, it is the basis for lots of popular melodies, and if you can even follow the basic key areas in a jazz tune and play the basic scale for each tonality, you're on the right path.

[Christopher Woitach]

I just have to put in another plug for "Connecting Chords Through Linear Harmony", by Bert Ligon - it explains very very clearly, with zillions of examples by the greatest bop players, how to use lines to connect arpeggios, which solves the exact issue you mention. Simply playing arpeggios or scales, as is stated elsewhere here, is preparatory to playing jazz lines, not the end in itself. The real point of bop style playing is create lines that "make the changes" in a melodically and rhythmically interesting way. This book spells it out very clearly if you work through it thoroughly.

There are very few books that are as usable and clear as this one (David Baker's books, Ted Greene's Chord Chemistry for example). I have been teaching and playing jazz for years, and this is the best one I've found. All the information completely applies to any instrument, including steel guitar, pedal or non pedal.

[Mike Neer]

I value Christopher's opinion on jazz--he is the real deal. Check out the book he recommends. I haven't, but if this was what I was looking to do, I'd be on it.

Good luck to everyone on their journeys. Though it is intensely personal, you really can't do it on your own. Teachers, jam sessions, mentors are an absolute necessity, as there are so many unwritten things. But follow your heart.