Why the rise in parting out non pedals

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 7 May 2017 8:49 pm

but the guy who buys one of these pickups and installs it into his 1950s Telecaster or Esquire will likely Not tell the next buyer than the pickup is not original to the guitar. It would be "period correct", but not original.

Yep, and that's fraud! That's why these sellers frost me - they're the first step.

If someone unknowingly buys an instrument fraudulently represented, discovers the fraud after receiving it and wants a refund the seller has a couple of choices - pay up or face a lawsuit and probable arrest.

But it has to be discovered - and *right away*. 14 days down the line and and they can claim the parts was installed by the buyer.

That's why buyers of high end gear need to deal with reputable sellers - and even then ask for an inspection by someone of his own choosing prior to sale. Decent sellers don't mind at all.

Although those pickups look the same when installed, the bottom of them is comletely different and a baseplate would have to be added to install it in a Tele.

Jef,f that happens all the time. Very "real" retro baseplates are common, and it's simple to age one and attach it. Unless the instrument is inspected by a very good expert - and many vintage instruments, even 'bursts running hundreds of thousands of dollars, aren't until after the sale - it may not be noticed in time.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 14 May 2017 7:34 am

Come to think about it, there are many things that are being parted out these days, not just steels and musical instruments.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 14 May 2017 8:22 am

Chris, you are very right and its a growing and very disturbing trend. Its a sad truth though, a lot of items are highly sought after only to be parted out. What these folks don't realize is that they will not make anymore of these vintage items, guitars or whatever it may be and they are literally destroying history. All I can hope is that the ebay guitars that this discussion is mainly about go to help restore guitars that do need the parts or maybe if they dont sell, the seller will put them back together. Its just a very sad sight to look at those guitars and to be honest I don't get on ebay much now because I know I will run across those parts listings.

Chris Templeton · Post by **Chris Templeton** » 14 May 2017 8:44 am

I am glad that I sold my steels on Ebay in the early 2000's, to finance my record and I rarely go there now.
Although I sold my early Frying pans and prewar Bakelites, I don't miss them much.
So much of the tone comes from the hands and not the instrument.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 18 May 2017 10:26 pm

I am just bumping this thread up so that those who are not aware will be of the recent rise in parting out non pedals and even pedal steels. I don't buy or sale many instruments but when I do get rid of one, I want it to go to someone who will play it rather than destroy it for parts and I am sure most of you feel the same. I've never been a big fan of ebay from a sellers standpoint (long story) but I hope that any instruments I decide to part with in the future will be sold here on the forum or locally.

William Rasch · Post by **William Rasch** » 19 May 2017 2:27 am

If you are concerned about one of these folks buying and parting out a steel you plan on selling on ebay you can block them from bidding on your auction.

Keith Bolog · Post by **Keith Bolog** » 19 May 2017 1:12 pm

I cant believe those pickups only bring $50. Not a Fender expert but if its a 6 string, that might be a vintage tele pickup equivalent worth a lot more.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 19 May 2017 1:19 pm

Keith Bolog wrote:I cant believe those pickups only bring $50. Not a Fender expert but if its a 6 string, that might be a vintage tele pickup equivalent worth a lot more.

Which pickups are $50 ?

Keith Bolog · Post by **Keith Bolog** » 19 May 2017 2:00 pm

On page 1 you listed the ebay selling prices for stringmaster parts.

Marc Bell · Post by **Marc Bell** » 19 May 2017 2:11 pm

Jeff Mead wrote:
Keith Bolog wrote:I cant believe those pickups only bring $50. Not a Fender expert but if its a 6 string, that might be a vintage tele pickup equivalent worth a lot more.
Which pickups are $50 ?

Hankeroo sells 1950s 8 string stringmaster pickups starting at $50. I picked up a couple at that price for builds, they are a bargain.

This thread seems to have had exactly the opposite effect than intended. This guy stripping down old Fenders is selling parts like hot cakes these days. I would hazard a guess buyers are coming from this forum after seeing this thread advertizing parts on ebay!

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 19 May 2017 2:13 pm

In response to what William Rasch said. I did not know you could block a buyer.

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 19 May 2017 2:46 pm

Keith Bolog wrote:On page 1 you listed the ebay selling prices for stringmaster parts.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about 6 string pickups for £50 - they seem to go for way more than that purely because you can use them in Telecasters.

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 20 May 2017 6:16 am

Daniel McKee wrote:In response to what William Rasch said. I did not know you could block a buyer.

I'd sure like to know how. I've looked for a way several times in the past and haven't figured it out. I don't think you can. It would make too much sense!

Charles Stange · Post by **Charles Stange** » 20 May 2017 6:52 am

on Ebay under Help & Contact, type Block Buyer in the question search box.....scroll down to Managing bidders & buyers, see link Update Blocked Buyers List....

That said, many sellers use a separate ID for buying...

Sell what you want, just don't call me late for dinner...

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 20 May 2017 7:18 am

Charles Stange wrote:on Ebay under Help & Contact, type Block Buyer in the question search box.....scroll down to Managing bidders & buyers, see link Update Blocked Buyers List....

That said, many sellers use a separate ID for buying...

Sell what you want, just don't call me late for dinner...

Thanks. I had somehow missed that "Managing bidders & buyers" link. I expect you're right about many sellers using a seperate ID for buying though.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 May 2017 11:28 am

I'm not sure who gets to appoint the historians to fight the noble fight against those dag-nabbed capitalists but in order to determine the "real worth" of these "great old steels", what are they currently being used for? The entire vintage guitar markets is so rife with fraud anyway - like "real" antiques, it's probably between 85% to 90% fraudulent, and many of your more respectable "authorities" either have millions of dollars or thousands of dollars worth of instruments hanging on the wall, depending on whether you ask them - or their competitors. The "Coodercasters" are getting "goldfoil" pickups out of old Oahu and Magnatone steels that were one step from a capitalist's junk pile (YOU wanna buy them?) and into guitars that are being played, but anyone who wants to is welcome to try running around the booby-hatch'd asylum of "vintage instrument prices" saying "I'm the sane one! I'm the sane one!"

Just contact these guys and tell them you're willing to buy all the intact steels they have at whatever price they like and the molestation stops dead in it's tracks. But I have had a couple of friends in the antiques trade, done some work for them, and you REALLY have to park your sanity at the door before you dig in. Late 19th-century Americana? The furniture stuff looks like firewood that Farmer Jones banged together in a couple of hours in his barn - because IT IS. But it's OLD!- X4! and WORMY!- X10! And they were OLD WORMS....(

) And the term "musical instrument" applied towards antiques seems to be multiplicative rather than additive - multiplicative towards the INSANITY, not necessarily towards the price. Or VALUE, which never the twain may meet, yet that process mentioned above - of reproductions becoming more-real-by-degree-of-contact is very very real. You can even buy just the worming, if ya know the right kind of people.

And EXACTLY like "vintage guitars" every book about detecting phakes and fonies is also a reverse-engineering COOKbook. Barnum or beware'm, huh?

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 12 Jun 2017 7:57 am

Well, he's done it again. This time it's a quad. You can buy most of the parts in separate auctions. It's like a kit! You buy the parts and assemble it yourself.

Tony Oresteen · Post by **Tony Oresteen** » 13 Jun 2017 11:09 am

Doug Beaumier wrote:Well, he's done it again. This time it's a quad. You can buy most of the parts in separate auctions. It's like a kit! You buy the parts and assemble it yourself.

Doug, that Q8 neck body has been up on eBay at least once before. My guess he pulled the listing just before it ended.

The cost to restore it is astronomical even if you use new Seymour Duncan pups & new Kluson tuners/ashtrays. I doubt that it will ever sell at that price. He has sold a T8 stripped body.

What we need are inexpensive new parts - nuts, bridges, body plates, pickups & covers etc to take the profit out of the parts business. Fender could put these guys out of bussines overnight by cranking up the Stringmaster line in Japan. Run it once a year and make the parts available again

Jeff Mead · Post by **Jeff Mead** » 13 Jun 2017 11:52 am

Tony Oresteen wrote:
Doug, that Q8 neck body has been up on eBay at least once before. My guess he pulled the listing just before it ended.

The cost to restore it is astronomical even if you use new Seymour Duncan pups & new Kluson tuners/ashtrays. I doubt that it will ever sell at that price.

The new Kluson tuners/ashtrays aren't designed to fit the long scale Stringmasters anyway - you'd need to route out the headstock area (actually, the new Kluson tuners don't even fit all the medium and short scale Stringmasters which they ARE designed for but that's another matter).

Tony Oresteen · Post by **Tony Oresteen** » 16 Jun 2017 7:27 am

Well, this trend is not just for vintage guitars. Here's an example of a seller paring out Ibanez guitars:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/usedguitargoods ... 7675.l2562

I had been looking for a red Ibanez RG410 Roadstar II 1986 model (old headstock style) for over 2 years

(Internet found photo)

and finally I got a stripped one a couple of weeks ago for $152 shipped:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/112426627070?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I had to buy rear cavity covers for $43 and an Edge bridge for $61 so that put me at $257 with no pickup.

The market value of an RG 410 is about $200 or less. I though long and hard before I bought the stripped RG410 but I just didn't want to wait any longer.

I'll spend $95 on a new DiMarzio PAF pickup, $20 for Schaller strap locks, $30 for electronics/knobs/nut parts and $60 for a pro setup bringing my total to $462 for a gig ready '86 Ibanez.

The downside is I'm helping fuel the 'break-em-apart' used parts market.

Mike Hultin · Post by **Mike Hultin** » 4 Jul 2017 2:18 pm

William Rasch wrote:I sent him a message on ebay on his practice and well I won't list the response I got

I would appreciate if you did.

Mike Hultin · Post by **Mike Hultin** » 4 Jul 2017 2:28 pm

Jim Sliff wrote:
but the guy who buys one of these pickups and installs it into his 1950s Telecaster or Esquire will likely Not tell the next buyer than the pickup is not original to the guitar. It would be "period correct", but not original.
Yep, and that's fraud! That's why these sellers frost me - they're the first step.

If someone unknowingly buys an instrument fraudulently represented, discovers the fraud after receiving it and wants a refund the seller has a couple of choices - pay up or face a lawsuit and probable arrest.

But it has to be discovered - and *right away*. 14 days down the line and and they can claim the parts was installed by the buyer.

That's why buyers of high end gear need to deal with reputable sellers - and even then ask for an inspection by someone of his own choosing prior to sale. Decent sellers don't mind at all.

Although those pickups look the same when installed, the bottom of them is comletely different and a baseplate would have to be added to install it in a Tele.
Jef,f that happens all the time. Very "real" retro baseplates are common, and it's simple to age one and attach it. Unless the instrument is inspected by a very good expert - and many vintage instruments, even 'bursts running hundreds of thousands of dollars, aren't until after the sale - it may not be noticed in time.

None of this is factual. Anyone with experience with vintage Fenders can tell the difference between counterfeit, original, restored.

Also, if someone is buying 1950's Fender Teles, they're getting them from dealers who push them to appraisers first to get looked at.

Mike Hultin · Post by **Mike Hultin** » 4 Jul 2017 2:29 pm

Jack Hanson wrote:
William Rasch wrote:I sent him a message on ebay on his practice and well I won't list the response I got
I once sent him a message to ask if he'd be willing to sell the aluminum foil in the pickup cavity of one of his Deluxe 6 bodies separately; you can imagine his response.

That never happened. If I did, I would have entertained the transaction. So saying, "you can imagine his response" is exactly what someone would say when it comes to something that never happened.

Mike Hultin · Post by **Mike Hultin** » 4 Jul 2017 2:32 pm

Jim Sliff wrote:
"Parting out" removes a vintage instrument from the planet permanently. There are a finite number of these in existence. To reputable vintage dealers (and buyers) this is criminal.

Worse yet - many of these parts - especially Fender 6-string parts - are purchased for the purpose of creating a complete "100% original vintage guitar" using parts from several. This is fraud.

Fender steel parts, while not from "revered vintage guitars" still take what are a very limited number of working instruments out of circulation. At least one excellent condition long scale Fender 400 was purchased from a seller who thought the buyer was going to *play* it - and parted out. Profit on steel parts may be very low, but they serve to support the operation.

The sad fact is there are more fraudulent "Vintage Fender Guitars" being sold today than real ones! It is very, very difficult to recognize a "parts" guitar assembled by a skilled counterfeit builder. These crooks will buy parts from eBay sellers (that either came from complete or partial guitars stripped for parts sale) and sell a counterfeit for 5-10x their investment ...or more.

The eBay seller parting out these guitars are the first step in a wide, fraudulent market. Buying anything from them, regardless of the reason or guitar type, is helping support fraudulent activity.

Claiming that someone who parts out vintage guitar is committing fraud is defamatory. Odd that posts like this haven't been removed from the forum for breaking the rules. Nothing in the comment is factual.

Mike Hultin · Post by **Mike Hultin** » 4 Jul 2017 2:36 pm

Daniel McKee wrote:Yea I hope it ends soon too. I'm not super good with ebay so you guys might can answer this better than If I tried my hand at sorting this myself but say I were to be interested in one of the bodies and wanted to buy its parts, how hard would it be for me to get the body and at least correct parts together and price wise would it even be a reasonable task? Probably a dumb idea but Im tempted to give it a try. I just cant stand these guitars being torn apart like that.

I would recommend buying a whole one since they are going for peanuts. There seems to be a large supply of Fender steels and nobody to play them so they go for very low prices.