I should have said "Why did the Emmons Guitar Company move from a Push-Pull to an All-Pull changer?
Cheaper to produce and some would say more efficient and lower maintenance. But it's interesting that push/pulls are still considered to be the industry standard for tone. And the selling prices continue to rise.
NOT cheaper, but rather less expensive. More cost effective. Not CHEAPER.
Just look at a P Pull and all of the parts compared to a Legande II and it's total number of parts ! No contest !
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
Are we sure that Buddy recorded that Roger Miller album using a push pull? He played a tune off that album which was was released in 1971 on a Sho Bud Professional live on Hee Haw in the same year. I am wondering if he may have recorded it using the same steel.
Cheaper to produce and some would say more efficient and lower maintenance. But it's interesting that push/pulls are still considered to be the industry standard for tone. And the selling prices continue to rise.
NOT cheaper, but rather less expensive. More cost effective. Not CHEAPER.
Tony, I said "cheaper to produce". That means "less expensive to build". It does Not mean more cheaply made. I thought that was clear in the wording I used.
Buddy told me the Sho-Bud on the Hee Haw clip was his. He also once said to me "If I'm lucky, I'll find a nickel in a pig track!" sounds like a Buddy-ism to me
I think the Hoosier appreciated the Southern style of speech, even settled in Tennessee, and enjoyed creating colloquialisms.
""If I'm lucky, I'll find a nickel in a pig track!"--Dyke Corson
I can think of a million things that sound better than a Harley. 100.0 % of them seem to have lost their silencers... Everytime one rolls by my house, I feel a strong urge to throw a crowbar through the front wheel – that should teach the selfish morons to behave.
They lose their silencers so that you hearing impaired steel players listening to Buddy Emmons in your big trucks at full volume can hear that there's a guy on a motorcycle next to you when you decide to absent-mindedly change lanes without a second thought.
Just sayin'...
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg?
I have always preferred the raise-predominant systems over the all-pull. I don't like the Emmons p/p, so tend to gravitate toward pull-release systems like found on early Marlen's. Because they're not made with sheet metal stampings and rivets, they tend to sustain better and seem to provide a bit richer tone. The On-Trak's I build are very forward-thinking in overall design, but I did regress to a single-finger, center-pull changer system with very rewarding results in both tone and mechanical accuracy. The fingers are made of 6061 aluminum and have a 7/16" radius on them. They rotate on a 3/8" diameter hardened and nitrided steel axle. Until someone designs and actually builds a center-pull, all-pull changer, I will always feel they are inferior in design. (I understand that Joe Kline did build one for the late Leonard Stadler many years ago).
PRR
well, after careful examination and comparison of my P Pulls and my Legrande II, I have come to the calculated conclusion that you can actually count the number of parts used on the ALL PULL Legrande while the P Pulls requires extra fingers to count ALL of the parts used in the build.
So my theory, just based on how many PARTS are needed to build a P PUll vs an ALL Pull, it comes down to manufacturing cost, parts and labor. The Legrandes allowed Emmons to build Steel guitars that were high quality and cost competitive. It allowed them to stay competitive in the
common market with an excellent offering. It was a very smart move for them.
That old stigma of " P Pulls are a nightmare" was gone. They crossed the divide. IF you think about it, they are the ONLY Steel guitar manufacturer that reinvented themselves while "IN" business , they changed their entire platform. Not an easy thing to do.
What happened AFTER, years later, is not related to changing from a P Pull to an ALL PULL system.
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
When I first started playing Emmons was still offering both types of steel. I remember the talk at the St. Louis convention was that the all pull was the modern way to to go. More set up variations, easier to adjust, quieter mechanics and the very important feature of the time, softer pedal action. People where walking from steel builder to steel builder pushing the pedals with there fingers.
This is only a view from the outside that I got from the scuttlebutt at Scottys convention durring those years. I have no idea what motivated the Emmons company. It would be great if one of you guys who knows first hand would fill us in.
Bob Hoffnar wrote:When I first started playing Emmons was still offering both types of steel. I remember the talk at the St. Louis convention was that the all pull was the modern way to to go. More set up variations, easier to adjust, quieter mechanics and the very important feature of the time, softer pedal action. People where walking from steel builder to steel builder pushing the pedals with there fingers.
.
Well for one thing, those among us who knew diddly squat about Steel guitar maintenance or set up could manage an all pull Legrande . Obviously all the newer manufacturers coming on the scene figured out that players , regardless of mechanical ability, needed to know how to tune their Steels or make a simple repair.
As Dylan wrote...
"The Times They are a' Changin' "
I go back to being competitive with a comparable product and pricing, which obviously includes cost of manufacturing. I doubt they ended making P Pulls because they were crummy Steels .
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders , Eastman Mandolin ,
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
The obvious reason for the introduction of the LeGrande was to increase market share. For various reasons, there were folks who preferred the simpler set-up and maintenance of an all-pull instrument, and wouldn't touch an Emmons with a ten-foot pole.
I remember back in the day when Clem Schmitz received his first LeGrande at the old Pedal Steel Guitar Emporium in Minneapolis. The unanimous conclusion among most of his clientele was that it sounded better than an MSA and held its tune better than a Sho-Bud, but did not surpass the original Emmons.
Mike Cass kept on playing his rosewood push-pull and Russ Pahl kept on playing his basketweave push-pull. At least that's how I remember it.
Jack Hanson wrote:The obvious reason for the introduction of the LeGrande was to increase market share.
I agree, and the question for me is: why did they quit making PPs? When GM introduced the Geo Metro, they didn't stop making the Cadillac..some want one, some want the other. It comes down to sound for me. I have PPs and APs, and when I go to a gig, I take one of the PPs. They were already tooled up for them..why not 'expand' and make both? Obviously a 'bean counter' decision to me.
Dave Meis wrote:...the question for me is: why did they quit making PPs?
Fairly certain that both push-pulls and LeGrandes were manufactured concurrently for quite some time after the LeGrande was introduced.
In fact, push-pulls were available on special order from Burlington up until just a few years ago. Whether or not you would actually take delivery remains open to speculation.
I haven't commented on this thread because most have hit the nail on the head. Two reasons being cost of production and keeping up with the times. Just look at a push pull bell crank as compared to an all pull. Most all pulls are just stamped. also a very smart move by Emmons company to produce all pulls to be in competition with other makers while still producing a few push pulls for the ones that wanted one..
I really wanted to address the part about push pulls being a mechanical nightmare. I would say far from it, I think they are a piece of mechanical ingenuity at it's best. True, a little harder to work on and more time consuming but not really enough to mater. I had really rather work on a push pull than I had an all pull. Once the changer is in tune, you could completely remove every rod and bell crank and crossbar from one, clean and put back together and be in tune when you turned it over, that is if you know how to work on one . Just got thru doing that to one. All pulls are a little picky on which hole rod is in on both ends and few other little quirks to get it to feel and play good. I'm not a guitar expert by a long shot but just stating what's easier for me.
I can also squeeze out little moves on a push pull better than I can an all pull while playing. Some all pulls are better than others but the feel of the push pull rules. The push pull has for sure got to be set up right or it will play like a log wagon. Set up properly, the pedals and levers are easy and positive and you can't even feel the slack. I haven't even mention probably the most talked about part of the push pull and that's tone, none better that I have found.
Henry Matthews
D-10 1974 Emmons cut tail, fat back,rosewood, 8&5
Nashville 112 amp, Fishman Loudbox Performer amp, Hilton pedal, Goodrich pedal,BJS bar, Kyser picks, Live steel Strings. No effects, doodads or stomp boxes.
I thought that was clear in the wording I used.
