Knee lever function change

[Clem Foust]

Anyone know how to change the function if a knee lever?

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

The Op wants to know if a convertable knee lever exists? To have not a whole changeover system but rather one knee thatcan be changed with the flip of a switch or pull of a rod?

[b0b]

I'd love to have something like that.

[Charlie McDonald]

It seems that dual levers are the equivalent of throwing two switches. Otherwise, bellcranks would have to be operable clamps.

I'm not so sure that's what the OP means.
Clem, do you mean how to change the assignment of raises and lowers on a lever?

Welcome to the Forum.

[Earnest Bovine]

one knee thatcan be changed with the flip of a switch or pull of a rod?

Hook up all the changes, and back off the tuning nuts on some of them.

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Yes what Clem wants is a single knee lever that can switch between multiple changes. To what extent, I'm not really sure. Thanks

[Jon Light (deceased)]

A few years ago a European forum member was engineering a servo device to select KL function and was seeing if there was any interest. It would have been expensive but it was definitely interesting. Never heard any more about it.

[Erv Niehaus]

Ed Fulawka uses a change over system on his guitars. On a double neck, there are two knobs on the back side that changes the RK lever functions from one neck to the other. They work slick!

[Charley Bond]

I designed one & showed it to Maurice & Bobby Bowman, the last time I was in Dallas, many many moons ago, 20 +years ago.

I'll see if I can find the drawings..

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Please do. Clem doesn't get on the forum too often, but ill keep an eye out for it charley.

[b0b]

It would be the coolest thing since sliced bread.

[Pat Chong]

Dekley (and maybe others) have keyed crossbars where the bellcranks are mounted. Make the bellcranks rotate freely when the key is not installed and make the notched key move freely back and forth (at the push of a knob?) and one would be able to engage/disengage bellcranks on the fly....
AND, with the same idea, one could also have multi functioning pedals, too. Or, at the push of a knob, you have E9 or C6..............

Just a thought..............Pat

[Bobby D. Jones]

If you had a cross rod like Pat described on a Dekley with a key grove full length of the cross rod. Silver solder a full length key in the cross rod grove. Cut out sections of the exposed key even with the shaft, Then all you would need is a way to slide the bell crank on and off of the full key section to lock it to the shaft so it would pull the required rod or move the bell crank where it could just free rotate where a section of key is cut away. With a lever or knob to move one set of bell cranks to lock one or more bell cranks while unlocking other Bell Cranks at the same time. This would change what string would be raised or lowered.

When I worked in the light manufacturing trade we had many dis-connectors on machines so if a head was empty it would not perform its task and waste material. These used contact switches and electric selinoids to disconnect the rods which performed the process. This would add weight to steel guitar.

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Can somebody please show me a drawing or picture of how this would work? (diagram)

[Pat Chong]

I do not have a CAD system where I could animate this, so I can only describe it.

Dekley PSGs have round cross shafts. It is apparent that the bellcranks would (over time) shift position on the round shaft. Some PSG builders have taken care of that by making the shaft NOT round (square, hex, etc). But for this idea to work, we go back to having the round shaft.

Dekley took care of this shift problem by adding a key into the shaft, their version of "not round". If one does not tighten the set screw on the bellcrank (without the key) it would rotate freely on the cross shaft. One would also have to make the key slide freely in it's slot.

Let the bellcrank rotate freely UNTILL the key is inserted, and your bellcrank turns only with the shaft. By this manner, one can engage or dis-engage the bellcrank at will.

Personally, I need a MAP to find out where to go, if the area I am going to is new. VERBAL instructions don't help much, because I need to SEE where I am to go. If you, too, need to SEE what I am talking about, I can understand, but at this point (sorry), this is the best I can do. If someone can animate my idea, and put it in this thread, then one may do so.



...................Pat

[Jerry Jones]

It would be interesting to see which two functions (sets of pulls) would be selected for a dual purpose knee lever....anyone?

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

I think I understand this now. Makes sense when you think about a loose bell crank

[b0b]

It would be interesting to see which two functions (sets of pulls) would be selected for a dual purpose knee lever....anyone?

In my case, I am playing a D6th that also has E9th changes. I would like the LKR to raise the first string half a step and lower the 6th string a full step, a fairly standard E9th change. But when I'm playing jazz or swing (typical C6th stuff), I'd rather have it lower the 4th string half a step (the A>Ab change on C6th).

This is very impractical for a "back off the tuning nuts" solution, as it's typically a choice that is made when the song is called on the bandstand. LKV is another one. I have some songs that I learned on E9th with LKV raising high E to F#, and others that require the more standard 5th string lower B>Bb. Not a huge deal, but retuning a lever between songs on the bandstand is not my idea of fun.

[Jerry Jones]

It would seem that you could have each set of changes situated on a separate cross shaft.

The actual lever could be set up like a right moving reverser lever but with the choice of two different fingers rather than just one.

That actual lever should be fixed to yet another cross shaft that moves forward or backwards just enough to engage either of the two reverser fingers … each of which is attached to one of the change sets.

[Pat Chong]

See b0b,
That would be the idea! You have all 3 bellcranks on one shaft, but the key sliding back and forth on the shaft, would actuate bellcranks 1 and 6 in one position, and the 4 bellcrank in the other position. You could do it on the fly, or between songs! Is this not what you want? I can share ideas with someone who CAN make this happen and put it into action.
And Jerry, in this manner, you would not need 2 different shafts, but one (saving you room to add more.....) You would not need to re-tune.
And, in this way, you might even have more than 2 changes on one shaft.........



..............Pat

[b0b]

Would it take more machining to change the copedent?

[Charley Bond]

Here is a sketch to enable your Steel guitar to have an adjustable function knee Lever




There are certainly some refinements that can be made to this sketch, but I don't have my AutoCad up & working.

The idea is reach under your guitar & slide the #2 block(s) back & forth to select certain string pulls (raises & lowers)

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Is this all just theoretical or has it been done somewhere before? Thanks

[Pat Chong]

b0b,
If you are using the same setup (1+6 vs 4), no. You can change raises vs lowers on those strings. If you are using other strings, then "yes".
All the components would be the same except for the key, that would have to be re-done, but that is all.

...................Pat.

[Ross Shafer]

Charley: I'm probably missing something, but is that diagram supposed to be for an all pull guitar? If so isn't rod coming off the #1 block/bellcrank is moving in the wrong direction for an all pull?