chosing C 6th or E 9th tunings

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 3 Dec 2004 8:11 am

how do you decide which tuning to use on what songs??

Ray Montee (RIP) · Post by **Ray Montee (RIP)** » 3 Dec 2004 8:37 am

After you've served an appropriate amount of learning time in the trenches.....one develops "a sense about it". Doesn't usually come in the first week, months or year but it will eventually arrive on your doorstep, quite unannounced. Then you no longer will have to think about it but will automatically go to the "neck of choice" and ta-dah! There it is.

In the olden days, steel players had the opportunity to record instrumentals of their choosing. Many of us old timers would sit down and listen and listen and then change from this tuning to that one until we found the one that was right on. Then we'd learn the song. In that way, we learned so much more that we were able to retain than a newbie can expect to do today with everybody playing so darn fast.........and sounding alike.
Give yourself some time. Shut the door to your music room, turn everybody else off and listen to an instrumental you like. Put your ear up against the speaker and listen very intently to what is being played. Therein lies the secret. Good Luck to you.[This message was edited by Ray Montee on 03 December 2004 at 08:38 AM.]

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 3 Dec 2004 8:53 am

Thanks RAY,i have played E9th for many yrs.just decided to play C6th more.I do understand what your saying,but many yrs.playing Steel Guitar Rag ect.with E9th only,i could play it more comfortably on the E9th.also as Jeff Newman taught us pulling the D lever in,using B pedal,getting much C6th sounds.I was practicing,all my Xs live in Texas,George Strait,i know it's C6th,but can play it on E9th too,just wondering,what makes a person decide which way to go.Such as anytime by Eddie Arnold,plays both necks,Just curious
farris

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 3 Dec 2004 9:01 am

It's your ear telling you which voicings you want to use.

P6 sounds a whole lot different than AB down.
but in a way they serve the same musical logic / physical on the steel function.

And the type of licks you think are the right style.

There are some songs I can use either neck depending on how the band is swinging it.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Dec 2004 9:31 am

If you need to play any notes below B use the back neck.

I'm moving this topic to the "Pedal Steel" section of the Forum.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 3 Dec 2004 10:24 am

.........as to whether to use C6 or E9, it shouldn't be a problem. From the first four bars it should be obvious as to which "neck" would be appropriate for the song....it's the inherent "feeling" for the music, not a mechanical choice of which tuning to use.

www.genejones.com

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 3 Dec 2004 10:53 am

Thanks guys,just interesting,i'm really learning to like western swing,C6 after all these yrs.seems to excite the audiance so much more,now days seems people wants the place to rock.sure can jump from one neck to the other,but i'm just learning the back neck,and it's so easy to get lost,so practice make perfect they say huh.also hitting the right pedals.not good to hit the gas when trying for brake! farris

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 3 Dec 2004 2:06 pm

On my E9/B6 universal I can play in either mode from verse to verse, or even from chord to chord. But this doesn't make the choice any easier. Some songs have an obvious feel. But sometimes one of the members of the group comes up with a song in practice that I have never heard, or that is an original from them. I will sometimes simply ask them, "do you want something like this, or like this?" After doing this a few times, they get it, and I can just ask them if they want it Nashville style or swing style. Sometimes they completely surprise me with the one they pick.

And some times I don't ask, but just start in with one style, and they stop and say they want the other.

There are some songs that really need both approaches. One classic is Stormy Monday. I love to play a verse in a bluesy 6th-neck style, then for the turnaround go to the E9 neck for some screaming slide guitar stuff (but no Nashville pedal mashing!). I've seen guitar players drop their mouths open when I do that. You just can't switch between Wes Montgomery and Elmore James like that on a regular guitar. This pedal steel thing is magnificent.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Dec 2004 2:18 pm

Newer styles of music tend to favor wide chord voicings: sus4, add9, etc. These styles work equally well on both necks. The main difference is that E9th doesn't have the low range.

If you play swing on the E9th, it will have a bit of an E13th/A6th flavor. Very 1950's sounding, IMHO (Noel Boggs, Speedy West, etc.). I like that sound a lot.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra SD-12 (Ext E9), Williams D-12 Crossover, Sierra S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, C6, A6)

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 3 Dec 2004 3:00 pm

You have to consider who you are backing. When I worked with Tommy Cash any steel was E9th. At the "club" I work, it's all E9th when I back the owner/bandleader/singer, at his request.

I did a job with Ray Pillow back in the spring and it was 50/50 E9th/C6th for his material. He did a lot of songs from his latest CD that has Tommy White on steel - I had my hands full! even with charts.

I work with another singer frequently and it's whatever I think is appropriate.

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 3 Dec 2004 7:15 pm

Thanks,b0b,Jack,and all,lots of great information.i've really been studying this,because i love the C6th sounds too.because of my health ect.i'm have the pro 1 sho-bud i bought from Carl Green made into a new guitar by Duanne Marrs,Marrs Music.got to have a lighter guitar to carry.Got me to wondering if i'm gonna be happy or not.Yea,i think so,it's heck to get old!i'll just play my pro3 at home huh.
Thank ever one for response. farris

Jennings Ward · Post by **Jennings Ward** » 3 Dec 2004 7:20 pm

FERRIS, TO ME AND ONLY ME , IT IS A PREFERENCE. I PERSONALLY LIKE C6 BETTER THAN E9... THAT DONT MAKE IT RIGHT, IT'S JUST THE WAY I LIKE IT.....SOME COUNTRY SONGS DO NOT LEND THEMSELVES TO C6, AND JAZZ AND SWING, TO ME SOUND TERRABLE ON E9.. NOW I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE PERFECT, BUT I LIKE C6 BETTER OF THE 2......AND I PLAY STEEL FOR THE BEAUTIFULL ANGELIC SOUND I GET.. JENNINGS

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 4 Dec 2004 9:05 am

I play about 50/50 on each neck. You soon get a feel for what songs lay better or sound better on each tuning. Some songs I switch back and forth to change the feel. I also like to switch to the C neck if I'm carring all or most of the lead to keep the sound from getting stale.

It's kind of a mood thing. If I'm playing in a bar I might take a notion to play Way to Survive or Together Again totally different on the C neck especially if I get a second ride. It's kinda like having a second instrument. I played top 40 cover songs for three years in a house band and it was a wonderful band, but I just about forgot how to play the C neck. With Billy Mata I get a good work out on both necks.

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 4 Dec 2004 10:09 am

Thanks Roger, Together again on C6th,thats just away to cool man.Wow,that is bout more that a man can stand.keep up the good work
farris

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 4 Dec 2004 10:31 am

[This message was edited by Fred Shannon on 06 December 2004 at 12:27 AM.]

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 4 Dec 2004 11:57 am

Farris,
Check this out: http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/001052.html

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Bob
intonation help

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 5 Dec 2004 7:14 pm

Having a ball with C6th.sure it helps to have played 40 yrs.but i always was afraid of C6th.couldn't seem to get nothing out of it,so i just avoided it.i was just playing song,IT IS NO SECRET,couldn't believe the sound,and how all goes together.my problem now is do i want to use pedal 6 or go up or down no pedals.trying both ways,man this is fun!and such a full sound too.can't believe how,so many of us are scared of it.I was playing Waltz across Texas,i don't want to stop,well tomorrow,all goes well,i'll back EARNEST TUBB,on some of his stuff.and GEORGE STRAIT,All my exs.live in Texas.i love that western swing.go get it to any that doesn,t that don't play it,it's GREAT.
puts whole new life into your playing.
Bobbe Symore has 2 tapes,on C6th,says he will have us playing in one hour.man try it.
farris

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 5 Dec 2004 8:28 pm

What Roger Edginton said, verbatim... except replace "Billy Mata" with "Johnny Bush and James Hand."

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 6 Dec 2004 2:24 am

Farris do a search in no peddlers for

Threadzilla ; in the body of text
or
C6 modal theory ; in the title..

it is a VERY large thread, but Denny Turner's charts and C6 logic is killer,
and many of the brightest minds in No Pedlaers contributed to the thread over many weeks.
This wilkl really open up the tuning for you and imporve your soloing. So when yoiu do add pedals, it woill get very big very fast.
DD

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 6 Dec 2004 6:53 am

Hey Herb, that works for me. Give me Mata,Bush,Hands or anyone similar and I'm a happy camper. It seems if you spend much time in our part of the country you're gonna likely play some C6th especially if you mix in much Bob Wills like we do.

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 11 Dec 2004 10:18 am

A side line to this would be swapping necks within the same song for adding a little different tone/mood to a song. Is this just too inefficient or awkward? I have tried it in a few songs for fun. I am curious if anyone does this.
Lefty,
Dekley D-10
Sho-Bud LDG
Chandler C6th

Farris Currie · Post by **Farris Currie** » 14 Dec 2004 5:41 am

This thread really got me studying,if i get me a single 10,and set it up C6th.and go out and play it with groups,wonder if i'll make it,or fall on my face??The sound is so much deeper,fuller ect.also would make me learn it,instead of sliding back to E9th.well thats the way i first learned E9th.pressure makes one go.when the band hands it to ya,and says here is so and so,dam,do it or die!!way to learn!since i don't get paid anyway!all they can do is send me home huh.mabe i'll make a name for myself!!if i could just do that fancy finger picking like BOBBE does!!!!oh well!!
Yea,i'll probaly make a name alright!!!
well,,See what happens!!!!! farris