Cool Lloyd Green lick

[Jeff Mead]

I've been listening to a lot of Lloyd Green lately - particularly the stuff he did with Johnny Paycheck.

On this song, he does a really cool little lick at 0:20 as Johnny sings "time to go"

The only place I can find it is starting at fret 20 on strings 5 and 8 with the A pedal and E->F raise lever, releasing it and engaging the E lower.

However, it doesn't sound quite right to me - to me, it doesn't sound like he's using a wound string - there's a particular tonal quality you get with wound strings played way up on the neck that I don't hear?

Surely he didn't play it using a bar slant did he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3M6RPOdJjM

[Tim Russell]

I hear 3 & 5 strings while pedaling on & off of the A pedal, 10th to 12th fret.

[Jeff Mead]

So it's tome to work on my half-pedaling.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

My first thought in hearing this tidbit (away from steel) is to investigate 1st and 5th string combinations using slants and the 6th string and pedals as you go.
I've learned numerous times that ways that something can be played (the specific notes) are rarely the way that Mr. Green played it (the nuance, timbre, feel) and slants are frequently going to be involved.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

What Tim said, but at the 11th and 9th frets. Can't quite hear the last note he plays, but it might be open 5and2 at fret 11, which would set up the resolution 5 (or6?) and 4 on the next downbeat.

[Brett Lanier]

I agree with the approach Tim and Dan are suggesting. The tricky part is at the end.

To me it sounds like string 2 and 3 with 2 lowered a half step. Then release that knee lever while engaging the A pedal. Then hit 3 & 5 for the last note.

Important to remember that Lloyd doesn't lower string 4. As someone who also does not lower string 4 I can say that licks like this don't sound the same by lowering 4. After you get comfortable grabbing string 2 quickly the Lloyd-isms will really start coming out.

[Ian Rae]

I'm with Dan. The last note before the downbeat sounds like an E# (with B# beneath), so still at 9th fret, release B pedal, strings 2 & 3.

I wouldn't attempt to half-pedal - I'd use the half-step drop on the vertical. What would Lloyd Green have done? I'm guessing the half-pedal as he would have mastered that long before all-pull guitars came along.

[Tim Russell]

LOL - I must be tuned wrong. For me, it's 10/12 fret, key of "D", although the online tabs have it listed in the key of "C".

Lloyd is the master of bar slants, although I cannot hear any in that lick - he may well be doing them. That song is full of "Nashville Sound" steel at its' finest.

[Fred Amendola]

Try this, for the 10th and 12th Fret, key of D.
Ah is an A-half pedal.



Fred

[Dan Robinson]

I haven't tried this, but half-pedaling is hard to do. A knee with a feel stop is hard enough, but half pedal using only pitch as feedback in real time?

Could Lloyd be using bar slants? He sure is good with those?

[Ian Rae]

I'm away from my guitar but the tuner on my phone tells me key of C#. Unusual, and I suspect that the recording was originally in C as the upload has that slightly rushed and tinny feel as though the turntable was running fast.

And Fred, I was wrong about the last note in the second measure - you are clearly correct.

[Jerry Jones]

Instead of the half-pedal, move up one fret and play strings 3 and 5 with no pedals.

[Will VanHoye]

In reference to the hafe pedal change we do use split tuning. split string 5 with the A pedal and the Knee leaver that lowers 5 B to Bb[/i]

[Ian Rae]

That's what I would do - question is would Mr Green more likely use a half-pedal or a bar slant as he would have mastered both those skills before split tunings came along.

[Archie Nicol R.I.P.]

Talking of bar slants. 1:25.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA2TL5kMRqI

Arch.

[chris ivey]

never thought about it before. does lloyd use any type of split tuning?
i wouldn't have thought so.

[Ian Rae]

Me neither. As I suggested above, he would surely have had all bases covered before such things existed.

[Ian Rae]

Back at the guitar now. Never attempted half-pedaling before, but I've kind of convinced myself. Consider the following simple turnaround



Now slice that sausage thinly and you have LG's lick.

I suspect the musicians were not in that key originally, but that's how it's ended up on YouTube.

[Craig A Davidson]

On the Paycheck recording I have it is in C#.

[Jeff Mead]

On the Paycheck recording I have it is in C#.

It's like that on my CD too (The Real Mr Heartache) but there is also some noise on the right channel at the beginning that suggests the CD might have been compiled from vinyl copies rather than the original masters so maybe the deck was running slightly fast?

[Ian Rae]

I suspect that the recording was originally in C as the upload has that slightly rushed and tinny feel as though the turntable was running fast.

[Clyde Mattocks]

On the subject of half pedaling, I would encourage anyone to develop that skill, also half "knee levering". After all, guitar players do it all the time, bending strings to a desired pitch. I utilize half pedal and lever all the time. No, you won't be dead on every time, but you will reap the benefits of practice. It is like harmonics. go for it with the attitude that you're never going to miss it.

[Ian Rae]

Clyde, I shall take your advice. Even in the short time I've been attempting that lick I can get it maybe 50% of the time, and now I'm convinced that half-pedaling is to be cultivated as an extra tool, not avoided as an anachronism.

Thanks to Jeff for his original question!

[Tim Russell]

It's a bit of a tough move in that song because it's an up tempo number. If you practice 1/2 pedal/knees (augmented chords/runs) on slower songs, you'll probably pick it up pretty quick.

[Clyde Mattocks]

Thanks for not shooting down my tip. I can attest that practice brings results. As to doing it on an up tempo number, you sometimes have the advantage of it going by so fast, you can't really tell if it was dead on or not. The ear will accept the note you are suggesting.