Newbie taking the plunge, but have a few questions!

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 19 Mar 2016 3:40 pm

I've been addicted to the pedal steel sound for as long as I can remember, and for the last several years have been considering buying one, but life takes over, things come up, and I play other instruments as well. I am primarily a guitar player, but also dabble in Bluegrass/Scruggs-style banjo. I love trying to play pedal steel licks on my Telecaster, and one time during the first rehearsal I had with a band I used to play with the pedal steel player was in the bathroom and when he came back he asked who was playing his pedal steel, and I showed him it was me on a Telecaster! I now am in a place where I have the time to to put into learning the instrument and I want to take the plunge!

I have a 1974 Twin Reverb that's in the shop now getting a once over and a clean bill of health from a local, competent tech. I figure that would be a great amp to pair with a pedal steel!

There are some things I'm confused about though, and hopefully the kind folks here can shed some light and lead me in the right direction. If I've learned anything from my readings, I've learned not to cheap out, and instead buy a good pedal steel from the get-go. I don't want to buy something now and find out down the line it's limited or if I would have spent a little more from the beginning I could have had a much better instrument. Basically all i want to do is get good enough to add pedal steel to the music I like to write (everything from classic country to more modern Americana and alt-country type stuff) and eventually be proficient enough to play in a classic country cover band down the line. I realize this can take several/many years!

I'd like to spend no more than $3,000 on a pedal steel, which is my absolute, max budget, and if I can get one for less then even better! I'm guessing the best way to go is used. Here are my questions:

Single neck (E9) or double neck (E9, C6)?
How many knee levers and pedals?
10 or 12 string?
Is scale length something to consider?
Gearless/Keyless/traditional tuners, or does it not really matter?

My guess is a single neck, E9 tuning with 3 pedals and 4 levers will probably get me anywhere I want to go for a very long time, if not a lifetime, but I really don't know, and would appreciate some guidance! I also have no idea about pull only, push/pull, etc.? I'm a pretty simple guitar player. I play a couple Teles or an SG through an old '72 Princeton Reverb with some OD pedal when I can't crank the Princeton and that's it. I'd rather spend more time playing than worrying about little details that won't matter to me at this point. I figure practicing and putting in the time will make me a better player faster than working about insignificant details that probably won't really matter int he long run.

I have found a Sierra Crown Gearless single neck 10-string E9 for sale locally for around $2,000 that's apparently in excellent working order, amazing condition and needs nothing whatsoever. I have also come across a member here who owns SteelGuitarsOnline.com and has quite a few used pedal steel guitars, but I just don't know enough about older/used/vintage steel guitars to know what would be most appropriate for someone in my situation. I will say the BMI D10 he has for sale has kind of caught my eye.

As mentioned earlier, I'd rather just take the hit financially upfront and buy something that I can use forever instead of going with a student model, then have to sell it at a loss later and go through the process of buying something else down the line.

Any and all advice and recommendations are greatly appreciated, and I thank you all in advance for taking the time to read this and reply! Thanks again!

Dale Foreman · Post by **Dale Foreman** » 19 Mar 2016 4:02 pm

First of all, there are a lot of student models out there that you could start out on for a reasonable price. I would start out with an E9th with at least 2-4 knee levers and 3 floors.
This will enable you to play just about anything or any type of country music. Then after you start playing and find yourself advancing , ( you will be able to tell pretty quickly) you could move up to a more professional model. My advice would be to buy a know brand, something you can find parts far, and appeals to your eye. There are many players here that will chime in and make sure you listen to what they all say and draw your own conclusion. Steel players including me, are like Ford or Chevy owners, you will hear lots of comments some good, and some bad. Good luck on you new adventure!
Dale

Steve Pawlak · Post by **Steve Pawlak** » 19 Mar 2016 4:04 pm

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 19 Mar 2016 4:13 pm

Steve Pawlak wrote:http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... highlight=

Great deal, but I don't think I can get past that color!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 19 Mar 2016 5:30 pm

i'd look for a good used d10 all-pull guitar with a familiar name on it. i'd try to stay between $1200
and about $1800. everyone's got opinions. when you see people post you can click on the 'profile' button at the bottom of their post to see if they just joined or have been around for years, giving you an indication of the experience of the poster offering advice. it's best to get some friends with experience to point you in the right direction.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 19 Mar 2016 6:23 pm

Way too much for that Sierra.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 19 Mar 2016 7:25 pm

If you want to just play country, You only need 10 strings. 12 strings are better for playing rock, as the extra bass strings let you play power chords.

For now, you don't need a double neck, although you may want one in the future. You need a single neck 10 or 12 string, with 3 pedals and at least 3 knee levers, preferably 4 or 5.

A lot of people here have said they are very happy with the Stage One. Some have moved on to more advanced guitars with more features, but to the best of my knowledge, nobody has ever complained about the quality, playability, or tone of these instruments.

Edward Rhea · Post by **Edward Rhea** » 19 Mar 2016 7:44 pm

WOW...at least you've got a good handle on what you can spend. Welcome to the forum and good luck!

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 19 Mar 2016 8:07 pm

Get yourself a Mullen RP or G2.
Im sure you can find a nice used Mullen here on the forum in your price range. I have bought and sold quite a bit of steels since I started playing. Although I enjoy wheeling' and dealing, I doubt I would have owned as many guitars If I would have bought a Mullen in the first place. Maybe I would have just owned many different Mullen! Thats my $0.02 worth. Great sound, playability, and customer service! Mikes a real Class A Gentleman!

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 19 Mar 2016 8:17 pm

Now I'm looking at a ZumSteel Encore. Seems like these consistently get rave reviews and they won't break the bank. Are there any downsides to ordering one of these? In the 6-string guitar world I have almost always bought used because I know what I'm doing, but with pedal steel I have no clue and just worry about buying used, then it having issues and not really having anyone in my area who knows how to set it up or fix it/maintain it, etc. I know you save a lot and get more for your money buying used, but in my case as a newb, is the ZumSteel Encore a wise choice?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 19 Mar 2016 9:16 pm

Scott Parker wrote: is the ZumSteel Encore a wise choice?

Yes, it is. The encore is a step up from the Stage One. The big difference is that the pedal and knee lever arrangement on the Stage One cannot be altered, and it can on the Encore.

Most of us go through a period of experimenting with different setups before we finally settle on what we prefer. Now there's nothing wrong with the way the Stage One is set up, but some people like things arranged a little differently.

Bear in mind that there is no definitive correct way to set up the pedals and knee levers. It's entirely a matter of personal preference; as subjective as the choice of a preferred color.

If you think that some day in a couple of years, after you've learned all the basics, you'd like to experiment with your setup and change things around, the Encore is a better choice.

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 19 Mar 2016 9:21 pm

Mike Perlowin wrote:
Scott Parker wrote: is the ZumSteel Encore a wise choice?
Yes, it is. The encore is a step up from the Stage One. The big difference is that the pedal and knee lever arrangement on the Stage One cannot be altered, and it can on the Encore.

Most of us go through a period of experimenting with different setups before we finally settle on what we prefer. Now there's nothing wrong with the way the Stage One is set up, but some people like things arranged a little differently.

Bear in mind that there is no definitive correct way to set up the pedals and knee levers. It's entirely a matter of personal preference; as subjective as the choice of a preferred color.

If you think that some day in a couple of years, after you've learned all the basics, you'd like to experiment with your setup and change things around, the Encore is a better choice.

Thank you very much! I think at this point I don't even know what I don't know, if that makes any sense. I'm coming in here super green. My gut is telling me though, that the ZumSteel Encore may be the way to go. I want to spend the most time playing, and not have to worry about an old, vintage instrument having any possible issues, difficulty getting parts, having it in the shop which means less time playing it, etc.

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 19 Mar 2016 11:47 pm

The Encore is a relatively newer model gtr, so the odds of one having the issues that, say, an old beat Sho-Bud might have is probably rare.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Mar 2016 1:18 am

While the Stage One has a fixed unchangeable pull train, it has pull-release tone. It's incapable of a lot of my vocabulary, but if tone trumps other things, it's hard to beat.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Mar 2016 2:46 am

PS: the Sierra is a GREAT guitar, priced in its range, although slightly above the midpoint.
Only downside is that they can take a while to sell because although they're valuable, the pool of folks that value them is smallish.
While other deals might be better, you won't go wrong there.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 20 Mar 2016 3:10 am

Check this out.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=298923

Paul Wade · Post by **Paul Wade** » 20 Mar 2016 4:32 am

i started on a shobud mavrick s-10 bad guitar. move
up to a d-10 B.M.I. I have been playing for 29 years.
here is what i would go for price wise.
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=296315

the fender twin will do just fine. just my 2 cents

p.w

Carl Heatley · Post by **Carl Heatley** » 20 Mar 2016 5:01 am

First of all Scott...Welcome to the Twilight Zone!...With a 3k budget you should be able to find a really nice steel that will last you for a good many years...One thing you need to take into consideration is your size and weight...If you are 6ft 6" and built like quarterback you ain't going to be very comfortable sat behind a standard height S10 steel...Some of the modern S10 steels don't have adjustable front legs so if you need to raise the steel you would need to buy longer legs for it and some pedal rod extenders...Most of the newer steels are very similar in mechanical design...All pull changers..Easy to change setups and most can Supply extra pedals...Knee levers and lift kit's if needed in the future...The thing is to find a steel that you like the look of and think you will be comfortable with...But keep in mind you will have to make a few tweaks to what ever you buy to suit you...In all my years of playing I have only had 2 guitars I have regretted selling...My Sho-bud pro 1 and my Mullen pre RP.

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 20 Mar 2016 5:56 am

Carl Heatley wrote:First of all Scott...Welcome to the Twilight Zone!...With a 3k budget you should be able to find a really nice steel that will last you for a good many years...One thing you need to take into consideration is your size and weight...If you are 6ft 6" and built like quarterback you ain't going to be very comfortable sat behind a standard height S10 steel...Some of the modern S10 steels don't have adjustable front legs so if you need to raise the steel you would need to buy longer legs for it and some pedal rod extenders...Most of the newer steels are very similar in mechanical design...All pull changers..Easy to change setups and most can Supply extra pedals...Knee levers and lift kit's if needed in the future...The thing is to find a steel that you like the look of and think you will be comfortable with...But keep in mind you will have to make a few tweaks to what ever you buy to suit you...In all my years of playing I have only had 2 guitars I have regretted selling...My Sho-bud pro 1 and my Mullen pre RP.

I am 6'2" tall and weigh 190lbs, and was wondering how you guys if a guitar will 'fit' properly, given that many guitars I've seen only have the back legs that are adjustable.

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 20 Mar 2016 6:01 am

How about this one: http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=298935

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Mar 2016 6:04 am

Most pro models have adjustable front legs.
But you need collars to hold the pedal bar down, and pedal rods extensions/custom pedal rods.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Mar 2016 6:05 am

Excellent guitar

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 20 Mar 2016 6:29 am

good stuff Scott,

sure if you can grab an old Sho Bud like the Pro III for reasonable cash, do it ! But just know that the older guitars may need some attention and do not set-up as well as the newer era guitars. That Pro III is a great guitar and a tone monster with your Twin. I have owned several and just last year restored one just like in the photo.

Now back to your inquiry, a Zum Encore would be great, it has the ability to change a few things to your liking once you get the feel of the guitar.

its a 10 stringer, which is the recognized standard , 3 peds and 4 levers. And, should you decide to purchase written TAB instruction programs it will fit right in with the currently available material. That Steel will take you a LONG way down the road...perhaps years !

regarding a better or different guitar down the road, no problem, keep that Encore in good well cared for condition and you will get most of your money back if not all .

Go for it !

good luck

t

Scott Parker · Post by **Scott Parker** » 20 Mar 2016 6:38 am

Lane Gray wrote:Most pro models have adjustable front legs.
But you need collars to hold the pedal bar down, and pedal rods extensions/custom pedal rods.

So at my height (6'2") would I have any issues just ordering a ZumSteel Encore? The Sho-Bud looks gorgeous, but would that be less of a wise move for a newb than ordering an Encore off the bat at the beginning?

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 20 Mar 2016 6:43 am

If you're 6'2, I'd say you're gonna need a lift kit.
No biggie, they're inexpensive and easy to install. Piece of cake...I'm 5'11 and I have a 1" lift on both of my steels.
The Encore comes with a detachable pad...good call. I personally think that having a pad to rest your arm on will make it easier for you to develop your right hand technique. JMHO...
One more bit of advice...you'll most likely be spending
alot of time sitting at the steel, learning how to play and being totally sucked in by it, so do yourself a favor...spring for a pakaseat with a backrest. Steelseat or Steeler's Choice are your best choices.
Definitely money well spent...

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