Archiving Vinyl

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 27 Dec 2015 12:01 pm

I want to take my old Long Play Vinyl records, and put them on CD's. I have this Edirol External Sound Card, and was wondering if it will work? Put the turn table into the inputs on the Edirol? I know about the RIAA thing. Then use it on my home theater system, since the new stuff doesn't have a turntable input. Just trying to use what I already have without buying more "Stuff".

Or must I buy one of these?

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 27 Dec 2015 12:36 pm

The UA-1EX inputs are line level. You don't say what kind of outputs the turntable has, whether they're straight out of the cartridge, or amplified. Low level cartridge output into line level inputs probably wouldn't work, but if the turntable has a built-in pre-amp, it might.

You'd then be at the point of deciding what to do with the recorded signal, once it's inside your PC. I use a paid software application called VinylStudio, downloadable from the web, which is about the best solution I've found. It does have a learning curve. There are a lot of others out there, with varying feature sets and pricing.

I don't know anything about the "U-Phono" box. Same question would apply to the input issue as above, but since it appears to have a USB connection, what are the RCA ouput connectors for? Google is your friend.

To do what you're doing, I use a PS Audio Nuwave Phono Converter

which currently sells for $1,899, which may be more than you're interested in spending for this activity. There's a learning curve for this bad boy too, but one would expect that for the price.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 27 Dec 2015 2:45 pm

I use the device shown in your second picture--Behringer UFO202.

I make the recordings with Audacity.

No need to connect anything to your home stereo system to make the recordings. That's needed only on playback if you want to play back through your home system.

If you intend to do any editing of your recordings--such as splitting an LP into individual songs or removing clicks and pops, make the original recordings in WAV format, edit them, and then you can save the edited files in some other format if desired--possibly mp3 or FLAC.

I know nothing at all about the device in your first picture. If it has a turntable input, it may work.

The Behringer unit has a built-in phono pre-amp.

Here's the manual for it:

http://www.manualslib.com/manual/676327 ... fo202.html

Here's a youtube video on how to use it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kb_Cdmtomtk

Jim Priebe · Post by **Jim Priebe** » 27 Dec 2015 2:48 pm

I have tried a few ways but settled on just using 'Audio Recorder Pro' (for Windows) software. Just plug the turntable straight into the sound card line in (I use a RCA to 3.5 plug stereo adapter) and the software does the rest. Bit tedious as it's all in real time but a good opportunity to remind you why you originally bought the LP.
The software has it's own 'pre-amp' adjustment and is supposed to sense the track gaps if you want to record each track separate (as I do) but I have not mastered that as yet so I just lift the arm at the end of each track and save (otherwise it records the whole side as one track).
Once burned to CD the result is excellent.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 27 Dec 2015 3:24 pm

Mitch Drumm wrote:If you intend to do any editing of your recordings--such as splitting an LP into individual songs or removing clicks and pops, make the original recordings in WAV format, edit them, and then you can save the edited files in some other format if desired--possibly mp3 or FLAC.

The software I referenced earlier, VinylStudio, does all that stuff, and more.

It records each LP side separately, then the user can use it to look up track listings from various world-wide databases and import the track names and album art with a mouse click. Some older, obscure albums aren't out there, but most are. If one can't be found, you just manually type the tracks from the album into the software.

Once the LP is recorded and tracks named, it can search for and assign track breaks with another mouse click. If the album contains pops and scratch noise, another click or two will find and filter them out non-destructively. Then, it can save the tracks as mp3, flac, wma, or whatever format the user selects, ready for copying to whatever media is desired.

There are other features I don't even remember now. It's a pretty nice all-in-one solution, with minimal manual intervention necessary.

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 27 Dec 2015 4:24 pm

It looks like the topic has been pretty well covered. I just want to add that I use a turntable with a built-in RIAA preamp with line level output. I have a PC that I use just for A/V stuff and I just plug the output of the turntable into the Line In on the sound card. I use Audacity to record each side. Then I use it to clean up surface noise, break each side into tracks, equalize volume if needed, and any other audio editing that comes to mind with a particular project. Then I burn the tracks to CD.

The whole process is time consuming, but if the music is worth saving, then it can be time well spent enjoying it while working. I started doing this years ago not to archive the music, but to have some LP music on CD that I know will never be re-released by The Industry.

HTH. Enjoy your projects!

Bill Sinclair · Post by **Bill Sinclair** » 28 Dec 2015 6:49 am

I'm thinking about purchasing the VinylStudio software that Dave Potter mentioned ($30 download). I have a USB turntable that came with the EZ Vinyl Tape Converter program that is a little aggravating. I've also tried using Audacity but it was very time consuming. Maybe I just didn't have the hang of it. I like the fact that the VinylStudio can not only separate the tracks but label the songs on the albums that it recognizes from its database. I'm hoping that once I get through the learning curve it will do most of the work for me. Any other comments on VinylStudio or its competitors?

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 28 Dec 2015 8:05 am

Bill Sinclair wrote:I'm thinking about purchasing the VinylStudio software that Dave Potter mentioned ($30 download). ,,, I like the fact that the VinylStudio can not only separate the tracks but label the songs on the albums that it recognizes from its database.

Just a clarification on VinylStudio. The software vendor doesn't maintain a database. There are numerous album databases out there, both in this country and worldwide, and the software allows the user to choose one of them, or any combination of them, to find the album in question. Some hits don't contain any useful information, others do. But it a time-saving feature that not many other applications like this have, I'd guess.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 28 Dec 2015 8:39 am

Bill Sinclair wrote:I have a USB turntable...............I've also tried using Audacity but it was very time consuming. Maybe I just didn't have the hang of it............Any other comments on VinylStudio or its competitors?

I've never owned a USB turntable, but what I've read about them is not very complimentary. I'd expect they have a lot of compromises in their construction.

I use a standard JVC turntable, like one would have bought 20 or 30 years ago for a traditional home stereo system.

Suppose you had an LP that contained 12 songs, with 15 minutes running time on each side, for a total of a half hour, and you wanted to convert it to digital files.

That's done in real-time, so at a minimum you're going to have to play both sides of the LP. Once you have the hardware set up, it might take say 35 minutes to generate 2 files--one for each side of the LP.

How much more time might be required depends on whether or not you want to chop the results up into 12 individual files (one for each song) and how much time you want to devote to noise reduction, click/pop removal, and "tagging".

Vinyl played on a turntable always has some degree of undesirable noise, depending on the condition of the vinyl. If you have a high tolerance for ticks, pops, and groove noise on the fade in or fade out, maybe you don't spend any time at all on noise reduction.

Tagging time depends on how ornate you want tags to be and whether you are interested in other stuff like album art. Some people want their tags to include all kinds of stuff like genre, album title, year, etc. Others, like me, are only interested in artist and song title.

The databases out there to help with tagging are of varying accuracy. If you are a stickler for details and want a bunch of tags, you'll probably do quite a bit of manual correction. I don't use the databases at all. I just manually name the file the way I want it, such as "Ray Price (Buddy Emmons, steel) - Night Life.mp3" or "Ray Price - Night Life LP, side one.mp3".

Noise reduction is something of an art. You can spend hours manually removing ticks and pops from an LP or rely on semi-automated software to speed up the process. There's a learning curve for that stuff and it's easy to over-do it, leaving undesirable artifacts.

I use Audacity for recording.

I use Audacity to chop an LP into individual songs.

I use Audacity's "noise removal" filter to remove groove noise, any "hissing" type noise, and to fade out the tails of each track as desired. With practice, this takes less than 1 minute per file. I also use Audacity to add 2 seconds of silence to the end of each track.

I use mp3Tag for all tagging requirements.

I use "ClickRepair" to remove clicks, pops, and ticks if they are distracting. It can process a song within 10 to 30 seconds, depending on how badly it is damaged. It's a custom application made by a retired Australian mathematician (Brian Davies) and works very well. $40, with a free 30 day trial. You'd probably apply this type of application to each side of an LP before breaking it up into individual songs.

Overall, if you handed me a random LP that ran 30 minutes and wanted me to transfer it to mp3 format as separate songs, with noise reduction, click and pop removal, manual fading of each track, and manual tagging, it would probably take around 45 minutes to an hour, depending on the individual case. That's compared to perhaps 35 minutes to just do a basic job of getting each side of the LP into a WAV file.

So it can be time consuming if you have hundreds or thousands of LPs or 45s.

If your time is worth money, you may find it preferable to just obtain the individual songs on the LP in already digitized form--particularly if the 12 track LP really has only 3 or 4 songs you care about.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 28 Dec 2015 9:29 am

Mitch Drumm wrote:Noise reduction is something of an art. You can spend hours manually removing ticks and pops from an LP or rely on semi-automated software to speed up the process. There's a learning curve for that stuff and it's easy to over-do it, leaving undesirable artifacts.

I use Audacity for recording & to chop an LP into individual songs & "noise removal"

I use mp3Tag for all tagging requirements.

I use "ClickRepair" to remove clicks, pops, and ticks

Wow. That's quite a list of apps.

VinylStudio does all that stuff in one neat and tidy application, and it does it efficiently. While your statement about over-doing it is correct, I've found that just leaving most things in VinylStudio at the default settings avoids any adverse effects on the process.

For $30, it's well worth the investment, IMO. After one becomes familiar with using it, it possible to do all the post-recording "processing" of one album in probably 20-30 minutes normally-things go pretty quickly.

Jim Priebe · Post by **Jim Priebe** » 28 Dec 2015 1:16 pm

I agree with Dave about Vynil Studio. I have previously used it however when I updated my music computer for some reason it was unavailable at that time hence my optional choice.
I think I will go back to VS now as it requires much less intervention than Audio Recorder Pro. "Pro" ??? Doncha love it. Sounds like a steel guitar brand. What does that really mean anyway as it's the user who either is or isn't. BTW I have a JEM U12 and it's a "Super Pro" - it never rubbed off on to me.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 28 Dec 2015 2:57 pm

Jim Priebe wrote:BTW I have a JEM U12 and it's a "Super Pro" - it never rubbed off on to me.

Hey, Jim -

Funny how that works, right? It never rubbed off on me either, though I still give it a good try.

I had to look up the "JEM U12" you mention - hadn't heard of the brand, even after all my years "steeling". Here's one picture I found - pretty cool.

Jim Priebe · Post by **Jim Priebe** » 28 Dec 2015 6:49 pm

Dave
Yeah thats actually it. Only 2 U12's made here in Oz by john edward minson hence the name. Very Sho Bud like. I still have it but getting heavy for this old guy. Still plays fine and sits in music room. I used it for 25 years.
Sorry to get off topic here.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 31 Dec 2015 10:02 pm

Thanks guy's for all the help. My turntable does NOT have a built in preamp. And I wanted something I could use with my stereo system, as the new receiver doesn't have the phono RCA jacks like my old one had. I ended up buying yet another gizmo.(sigh) This is the one I ended up getting, a Rolls, so far so good. Makes Zane Beck and Julian sound like their right here in the living room. Thanks again.

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 28 Feb 2016 11:51 am

I want to once again give a much appreciated Thank You to you fella's for helping me git my turntable up and running. I was lost without it. I am once again listening to Julian, Wally, Red, Zane Beck in my truck & van. I will run these through my gate to cut down on the record & turntable noise. Much appreciated.

http://picosong.com/hKdq/

http://picosong.com/hKvu/

http://picosong.com/hKWj/