Windows 10

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 19 Nov 2015 9:54 pm

Does anyone know the upgrade number for windows 10. When it finally comes down to windows upgrading your computer to 10, I suspect it will have to be done by an upgrade. Right now I have a choice, but I suspect someday I will not. Hopefully that will be done via an upgrade, which I have a choice right now to take or not. Do you think this will remain so?

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 19 Nov 2015 11:50 pm

Not sure what you mean by "upgrade number". If you are referring to KBs, there are a lot of them related to the free upgrade. I know that KB3035583 is a primary KB to be avoided, but there are dozens more with some connection to Windows 10. That's why it's a mess if you don't want it.

Windows 10 is available through Windows Update, but it can be had through other legitimate means. You can just burn the Windows 10 ISO file to a DVD or put it on a bootable USB stick if you want it---or get it through Windows Update.

Or you can buy it right now for 100 or 140:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductLi ... ageSize=30

If you DON'T want it, you have to pay careful attention to Windows Update. If you are somewhat careless about which updates you accept, you might end up with it even though you don't want it.

I think I read something about how Microsoft is going to change the category for the Win 10 update next year (maybe from "optional" to "recommended" or something like that). So it will be even more easy to sneak by you if you are asleep at the switch.

It remains to be seen what will evolve over time. Microsoft is still fiddling with it. What "Windows 10" is at any given moment or the terms and conditions surrounding it are in a state of flux and it may stay that way.

No reason you can't stay with Windows 7 until at least January 2020, when it will no longer be supported.

You'll have to pay for it after next July if you want it at all, but maybe the "free" aspect until then doesn't appeal to you anyway.

I've pretty much decided to avoid the "free" version, but may or may not pay for it at some future time if I get new hardware.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 20 Nov 2015 7:07 am

Mitch Drumm wrote:I've pretty much decided to avoid the "free" version, but may or may not pay for it at some future time if I get new hardware.

I think that's what a lot of people, including me, have concluded WRT Win10. As with any new OS release, it's usually the case that even if we're satisfied with our current OS, hardware obsolescence forces upgrades eventually, if we want to be able to take advantage of new hardware capabilities.

I used to be neutral toward Microsoft and the way they did business in the past, but no more. They've become arrogant, aggressive, and insidious toward their customers, and I take a dim view of that.

MS is releasing the "Fall Update" for Win10 now. It was expected to be a big event, but apparently isn't that big a deal. The following is a quote from the latest edition of Windows Secrets:

"The original Win10 lets you roll back to Win7 or 8.1 within a month of upgrading to the new OS. Apparently, once you install Version 1511, the roll-back option is disabled. When your Win10 setup reaches its one-month anniversary, Fall Update should show up in Windows Update and be automatically installed."

So MS has decided to ratchet-up their militant tactics and rescind the roll-back option. "You WILL install Windows 10, and you WILL LIKE IT". This won't end well for MS.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Nov 2015 7:17 am

I'm using Win 10 (on hardware that will handle it) and not having any problems. However, I am in the "insider program" and have had Win 10 "preview" versions for quite a while, so Win 10 is not a "shock" to me.

My recording studio PC has Win 10 installed. I've noticed I could go down from 6ms to 4ms Latency with my USB recording interface device (a Roland Octa-Capture) and it is still recording reliably. 6ms was the lowest, reliable, I could go with Win 7/8/8.1.

But, I don't recommend Win 10 to everyone. Unless their hardware is current my suggestion is to not upgrade (but Microsoft is trying to make everyone upgrade).

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 20 Nov 2015 7:48 am

I have several computers I use. A win 7 here in
LA and a win 7 desktop and laptop in NY, as well as a couple XP's that I use only sparingly. I have had both discs wiped to start over with my win 7 desktops. I am just unsure about win 10 right now, tho I'll eventually upgrade i think.
I just want to upgrade on my terms instead of Microsoft terms.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 20 Nov 2015 7:51 am

Jack Stoner wrote:But, I don't recommend Win 10 to everyone. Unless their hardware is current my suggestion is to not upgrade (but Microsoft is trying to make everyone upgrade).

Maybe that's what happened when I tried Win10. I use USB extensively, with up to 10 or so devices on line at once. A lot of 'em are flight simulation devices, and some may not have been compatible with Win10, although the compatibility checker didn't raise any flags. At any rate, I had a lot of problems using them with Win10 USB, and I just wasn't willing to grapple with it. I went back to 7, where they all work fine again.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 20 Nov 2015 10:00 am

Dave, I have a USB/RS232C adapter that I use with my wife's Singer Embroidery machine to transfer patterns, using Win 7. The USB/RS232C adapter is not compatible with Win 8/8.1/10 (stated by adapter vendor and I've tried anyway). My system is dual boot, Win 7/10.

Archie Nicol R.I.P. · Post by **Archie Nicol R.I.P.** » 15 Dec 2015 5:11 pm

I have 8:1 and I'm scared. I worry (as always) about losing stuff. Every now and then, an `Upgrade to Windows 10` link appears. I'm just unsure whether to go for it. I'm not computer savvy and just like to turn on, tune in and chill out.

Arch.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Dec 2015 3:33 am

It the PC hardware is up to it, Win 10 is a "better Win 8/8.1". However, if the hardware is not up to date I would not do it.

You shouldn't lose anything, as the programs that are Win 8.1 compatible are also Win 10 compatible.

Microsoft is already dropping Win 8 (not Win 8.1) support in January. Win 7 support (for fixes) has already stopped and I would expect 8.1 will be in the same boat sooner than expected.

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 16 Dec 2015 9:03 am

Ken Lang wrote:Does anyone know the upgrade number for windows 10. When it finally comes down to windows upgrading your computer to 10, I suspect it will have to be done by an upgrade. Right now I have a choice, but I suspect someday I will not. Hopefully that will be done via an upgrade, which I have a choice right now to take or not. Do you think this will remain so?

If, as I suspect, you want to know how long you have to decide about upgrading a computer to Windows 10, here is a quote from Microsoft:

Microsoft is making Windows 10 available as a free upgrade for compatible devices that are running genuine Windows 7 Service Pack 1 or Windows 8.1 Update.

The free upgrade is a full version of Windows (not a trial or introductory version) and is available until July 29, 2016. Once you upgrade, youâ€™ll have Windows 10 for free on that device.

So, if your existing PC has a qualifying OS, you have until July 29, 2016 to upgrade. After that you will have to pay for a license to upgrade, or buy a new PC with Windows 10 pre-installed.

At this introductory time, if you manually upgrade to Windows 10 and run into insurmountable snags, you have 30 days to roll back to the previous OS. I did this twice already. Each time I reinstalled W10, the problems became fewer. I was about to roll back yesterday, but the issue appears to have sorted itself out. I suspect internal diagnostics are running in the background. That is a good thing.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 16 Dec 2015 11:21 am

Thanks, Wiz. That helps. Do you think the paid for version will be any better?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Dec 2015 11:52 am

Ken Lang wrote:Thanks, Wiz. That helps. Do you think the paid for version will be any better?

I would be surprised if they do that, but as Dave said, MS has become too arrogant and powerful. I have hated them since the early 90's when I was in programming school, my favorite C compiler was Borland C. Of course in the classroom, we used the C compiler built into Unix. MS marketing power eventually pushed Borland out of busines, at least in software products. The bit about no longer supporting older operating systems without major hardware upgrades, or having to purchase a new computer really pisses me off.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Dec 2015 1:29 pm

The "paid for" version will be exactly the same. As I noted, if the PC hardware is Win 10 capable I would go for it. The upgrade will take a hour or so depending on the particular PC.

I have upgraded two Win 8.1 systems to Win 10 and did not lose anything and everything is working well.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 16 Dec 2015 4:44 pm

I have a Win 7. I think I'll wait for the upgrade until March or April when I head back East for 6 months. At least I'll have some experience with 10 before I change my desktop back there. It'l give me some time to back it up. (Just in case.)

Wiz Feinberg · Post by **Wiz Feinberg** » 17 Dec 2015 12:05 am

Those of you who have Windows 7 can save a "system image" before upgrading to Windows 10. If things go badly, you can restore that image (using Windows 7 Backup) and be back where you were in about a half hour or so.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Dec 2015 1:02 pm

Wiz Feinberg wrote:Those of you who have Windows 7 can save a "system image" before upgrading to Windows 10. If things go badly, you can restore that image (using Windows 7 Backup) and be back where you were in about a half hour or so.

I did that. Does the image only contain Windows, or do other program and files get included?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Dec 2015 2:46 pm

If you do a full disc image with a program such as Acronis True Image, Macrium Reflect, etc to a separate drive then you will have everything. If you use the built in Windows image it won't save everything.

Ken Lang · Post by **Ken Lang** » 17 Dec 2015 3:40 pm

Could you tell us what it won't save? I don't expect that it will save programs that are not windows, but are added, like the Forum.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 17 Dec 2015 4:44 pm

Ken Lang wrote:Could you tell us what it won't save? I don't expect that it will save programs that are not windows, but are added, like the Forum.

Well, I was unaware of the distinction Jack noted, but the forum wouldn't apply; it's just a website, not a "program". You'd be able to access it via your web browser, regardless of which operating system you use.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 17 Dec 2015 8:47 pm

Richard Sinkler wrote:
Wiz Feinberg wrote:Those of you who have Windows 7 can save a "system image" before upgrading to Windows 10. If things go badly, you can restore that image (using Windows 7 Backup) and be back where you were in about a half hour or so.
I did that. Does the image only contain Windows, or do other program and files get included?

The Windows built-in imaging program "works", but it's testy, not very flexible, and can lead to confusion due to the interface. It has it's own ideas of what MUST be included in a backup. So it's tough to recommend it as a first choice for backing up "everything" on the C partition.

Competing programs, such as Macrium Reflect Free edition are much more straightforward and user-friendly. By default, they will back up EVERYTHING on the chosen partitions----Windows, installed applications, configuration settings, licensing details, pictures of your cat, etc--whatever happens to be on the chosen partition.

If you happen to have a "system reserved" partition that contains the boot loader for your PC, you MUST include it in the image file or make a separate image file of it. This partition would be marked as "system" in Windows Disk Management. May as well just include it in the same image file of C so you only have a single image file to worry about.

The Macrium image file will be roughly half the size of the occupied space on the imaged partition. Use that as a guide for how much storage space you would need.

You'll need to make a bootable rescue disk or USB stick to restore the image file. It's critical that you confirm that the disk or stick will in fact boot your PC. If it won't, you can't restore and the image file you made is largely useless.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 18 Dec 2015 3:34 am

When I backup a drive I always backup (image) ALL partitions (if there are any).

I'm currently using Macrium Reflect (paid version). As Mitch noted there is a free version that will do what is needed.

Just a personal comment on "free" software. If we all just use the free versions, eventually there will not be any free version. Support the efforts of programmers.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 18 Dec 2015 6:32 am

Jack Stoner wrote:Just a personal comment on "free" software. If we all just use the free versions, eventually there will not be any free version. Support the efforts of programmers.

Agree totally. I don't expect programmers to work for me for free any more than I'd want to work for them for free.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 18 Dec 2015 9:42 am

I do have a few free programs , but not that many. I have Macrium Free version, but really can't get the hand of it. I thought I would do a scheduled backup once a week. On a 2tb external hard drive, I started seeing it taking up almost all of that drive. It wasn't deleting or adding incremental changes to files. I had many backup files eating up space and had to delete many backup files.

Dave Potter · Post by **Dave Potter** » 18 Dec 2015 10:57 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:I have Macrium Free version, but really can't get the hand of it. I thought I would do a scheduled backup once a week. On a 2tb external hard drive, I started seeing it taking up almost all of that drive. It wasn't deleting or adding incremental changes to files. I had many backup files eating up space and had to delete many backup files.

I wonder why it's not performing for you. I've been using the paid version several years now, and haven't had problems. I don't schedule anything because I don't want my external drives running all the time - they make too much heat. But I alternate between my 2 external drives, one 8TB and one 3TB, and make full images always - no incrementals. I look at them now and then and cull out older backups when I need more space, although I know that can be done automatically as well.

It's a solid piece of software, IMO. And it's gotten me out of several "issues" using the images I had available.

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 18 Dec 2015 11:31 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:I do have a few free programs , but not that many. I have Macrium Free version, but really can't get the hand of it. I thought I would do a scheduled backup once a week. On a 2tb external hard drive, I started seeing it taking up almost all of that drive. It wasn't deleting or adding incremental changes to files. I had many backup files eating up space and had to delete many backup files.

Richard:

If you use Macrium Free to back up the C partition, it will create exactly one (1) file. That file will have an mrimg extension. It will be a large file that will occupy roughly half the space occupied by C. If C takes up 300 gigs, the file will be circa 150 gigs.

There's typically no reason to keep a bunch of older images of the Windows partition. Keep the most recent 2 or 3 mrimg files, and delete the older ones.

I don't think the free version does "incrementals", which is just as well. They can be an unnecessary complication. Just do a full backup every week or every month, whatever suits you.

Imaging isn't the best way to back up data files, but some people use imaging for that purpose. If you want to recover just one file from within an image, you have to drill into it and copy it out--just as you would in Windows Explorer. I think you can drill into a Macrium image by double-clicking that big mrimg file.

The most efficient thing to do is to keep Windows and applications on C and personal data on D. Use imaging to backup Windows and apps only, maybe weekly or monthly. Then use a standard file by file non-imaging method of backing up D much more often--probably daily. But I don't know if you have separate partitions like that.

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