B pedal has too much travel

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

My B pedal on my Push pull has a long bit of travel before it starts raising the string.
Its really awkward to play with it like this especially when using it with the A' Pedal, which starts bending the string right away. Is there a simple solution to this? Im not expecting the procedure to be simple, just hoping its a simple answer.
Thanks

[Georg Sørtun]

Basically: move pullrod closer to bell-crank axle, and reduce freeplay for nylon-nut at changer to "just enough".

Mmm, no use on a PP

[Len Amaral]

What type of guitar do you have? Maybe raising the B pedal or lowering the A pedal so your foot makes contact with both pedals at the same time?

Oh! A push-pull.....I know nothing about them and I use to own one😁

[Jim Park]

If you have a lower on that same string, then you have to have slack in the mechanism for the lower to work. The nylon tuner on the changer end is the open tuning on a PP. If there isn't a G# to G change on the guitar you can tighten up the slack. I would suggest reading up on PP's before messing with it, as they can become unplayable very quickly if proper methods for adjustment arent followed.

[chris ivey]

not on a push pull!
first make sure the raise finger is adjusted to the right length of pull while disengaged by the rod.
then adjust the slack in the rod with the collar at the bellcrank.
read john lacy's wilderness guide to the push pull. it lays out the operation clearly. there is a sticky link to the page up top of the 'pedal steel' threads.

[mike nolan]

It is an S-12 Push Pull.... answers so far are for all pull.... might be a Universal.
We don't know how many pulls are on that pedal, or what else is going on in the copedent... so really hard to tell. Generally, you need to move the collars closer to the bell crank, so that the string starts pulling sooner. But there could be a whole raft of other things that might change when you make that adjustment.... was it ever working the way you want?

A bunch of pictures would help.... and there is no simple explanation. If you are new to the PP mechanism..... everything affects something else.

[Jim Park]

If you have a lower on that same string, then you have to have slack in the mechanism for the lower to work. The nylon tuner on the changer end is the open tuning on a PP. If there isn't a G# to G change on the guitar you can tighten up the slack. I would suggest reading up on PP's before messing with it, as they can become unplayable very quickly if proper methods for adjustment arent followed.

[Tim Russell]

Jeff,

May I suggest that you purchase this manual/DVD on push pull set-up/maintenance. (ebay) It was mentioned in a thread on here a few weeks ago, and I immediately ordered one. Excellent information contained therein, and while I don't currently own a p/p, I plan to someday when prices come down a bit (yeah, right!).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/280598597396

[chris ivey]

i couldn't find it today...would someone post the wilderness guide to push pulls for jeff? you need to understand the basics and then it's clear what to do.
my first good steel was an s10 p/p and i looked at it underneath and logically assessed the function. and then there was no mystery.

[Lane Gray]

If you lower 6 to F#, you can't get rid of the slack: otherwise you'll lose the F#.
And what Tim said. These things are simple, but easy to screw up.

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Here are some photos of the undercarriage.

[Jim Park]

Here is John Lacey's PP guide www.melmusic.com go to links and click on John Lacey

[chris ivey]

everything looks to be very intact, so don't freak out.
once you learn to tune the changer first, the rodding will fall into place.
like my sister says about flying, 'stay at least 10 ft above the ground and don't do anything stupid'.
the same applies to the pp. everything is pretty much in order. relax and learn to set the changer first and then the rods. this will be a great steel. once you've got it, it will work right forever.

[Tim Russell]

A WILDERNESS GUIDE TO BASIC SETUP OF AN EMMONS PUSH PULL STEEL GUITAR -

http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Chris,
I think I understand how it works , but I just read so many misinformed posts saying its so encrypted and this and that.
Correct me if Im wrong but Heres what I gather from looking at it.
1. Tune each raise , neutral, and lower at the changer first.
2. Then adjust push/pull train to achieve the changes you set on the changer.
3. The springs are variables to achieve different feels, timing the changes, and slack is to accommodate 2 changes on one string? Allowing for a lower and raise?
The slack is the part that really confuses me so Im all but guessing there.
THanks

[chris ivey]

thanks tim. that's it!
got the info you need.

i actually knew mel wilson at one time. i think we were playing poker! and john lacy seems to be a fine guy.

[Jeff Metz Jr.]

Also I forgot to mention. Theres a half tone tuner just floating on the 3rd strings raise rod. It is visible in the third photo. Its not serving any purpose here. the copedent is EMmons ABC pedals and E's on LKL and LKR .Right knee left raises string 1 a whole tone from f# to g# and the 2nd string d# to e and RKR lowers 2nd string from d# to c#

[chris ivey]

i think the half tone adjuster should be on the 4th string raise rod to adjust the e-f raise.
it fills the gap between the e-eb lower and the e-f#
raise. the half stop adjuster sets the e-f raise.

[Tim Russell]

thanks tim. that's it!
got the info you need.

i actually knew mel wilson at one time. i think we were playing poker! and john lacy seems to be a fine guy.

Credit to Jim Park, previous post; I just followed his link!

[chris ivey]

jim will understand if i screw up since we've frequented some of the same bars and venues!
one day i heard this great emmons sound and when i found the stage it was jim playing into his amp. one volume pedal. 'no effects' and it sounded great.
and he was running late due to some cop trying to give him a ticket for being a steel player or something.

[Tim Russell]

he was running late due to some cop trying to give him a ticket for being a steel player or something

Hmmm...The cop must have been a Banjo picker...

[Jim Park]

Thanks for putting the whole link up there Tim, I tried to get the whole one but forgot how and my Ipad didn't show the whole thing in the url box. I had forgotten about that trip Chris, The three hour drive started with me driving down the street leaving for Oroville, seeing my daughters pick up truck stalled in a parking lot surrounded by teenage boys under the hood, so I stopped and got it started, but that was 20 minutes I couldn't afford, the motel clerk was a dawdling fool, then the cop stopped me. No ticket, but about nine minutes to set up and play was punishment enough LOL

[Jerry Roller]

The 6th string bellcrank on B pedal cross shaft is out of position and very likely to slip as the set screw is not against the flat surface. The 3rd string pull rod is in the last hole (longest pull). It should be in the second hole in the changer finger. If you are lowering the 6th string to F# I would also put the 6th string pull hook in the second hole of the changer finger.
Jerry

[Jerry Roller]

Sorry for double post.

[mike nolan]

Jeff,

You have the idea of how it works so it should be easy to get sorted. As Jerry suggested, you should reposition the 6th string bellcrank it may have slipped into that position and sort of stuck, so that it mostly works, but with a long throw. While you're under there, I'd try to align the rods connecting the E raise and lower levers to the cross shafts so that they are a bit straighter. Also, RKR doesn't seem to be be doing anything.... I can't see any swivels or collars on any of the bellcranks on the cross shaft that it moves.

Looks like it was a Uni at one point.

There are some other cool tricks to get the S 12 PPs to play a bit easier.... they are a bit stiffer naturally because they have shorter changer fingers than on a D-10 E9.