mesa boogie mark11C

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 10 Dec 2015 6:44 pm

Heard a lot of good things about the MB amps. Anyone chime in on this particular model? One in my neighborhood for sale '84 somewhat road worn but electronics good. No graphic eq I notice on this one.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 11 Dec 2015 10:53 am

How much is it selling for?

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 11 Dec 2015 11:59 am

$850. Did a brief search on it and it sounds like this model is a very popular with metal kids (which may not mean it still not a good steel amp) and fetch quite a bit in good cond. Not sure. But maybe B0b could shed some light on this one.

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 11 Dec 2015 12:50 pm

A little more search on the mark11 series... sounds like the mark11c+ are the most coveted which may be by mostly metal guitarists.The + includes cascading gain stages. I take it this would apply to different overdrive effects. The Mark11c includes a bass pull knob which extends the low freq. Could be a plus for steel, it's all in the pudding though. I kinda like the idea of a graphic eq though for tone shaping flexibilty...hmmmm

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 11 Dec 2015 2:00 pm

If it's in half decent shape. .. for 850 is an investment even if it sucks for steel.... and I sincerely doubt it would suck. Boogies have good clean channels. .. lots of headroom. .. you could put a geq in the loop to shape the OD tones if you like fuzz steel. Boogie has an eq effect pedal that is just like their inboard eq iirc.

Would expect dialing in a great steel tone would have more to do with finding a speaker that is nicely voiced for steel.

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 11 Dec 2015 2:42 pm

yeah thats the feel im getting about this. There's a 12" celestion 90w in there now which probably want to swap out for a more steel friendly spkr. May pick her up tomorrow. Any suggestion for a good steel speaker for this Mesa model?

Len Amaral · Post by **Len Amaral** » 11 Dec 2015 4:54 pm

I have a stable of Mesa amps and the Mark II series clean channel is very Fendery. However, just my opinion here for what it's worth, the combo Mark II is small and heavy and you may not the bass response with a pedal steel without the 5 band EQ. With that said, the Eminence TT-12 or the EPS-12 would be a good choice for steel guitar.

Michael Butler · Post by **Michael Butler** » 11 Dec 2015 6:46 pm

i have the mark IIB and it is a great amp. 60 watts is pretty loud! clean channel would be fine for pedal steel. the mark IIc+ has a small but definite change in the circuitry. IF it came to that, you or a tech could perform the change. my amp has a celestion speaker in it and along with the amp, gives a very clear, clean sound. can you get it dirty? sure, just use the other channel.

my feeling is that the price is a little high for an amp not in great shape, but, if looks don't bother you, go for it.

play music!

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 11 Dec 2015 11:02 pm

There's two ways to look at this. ...

If you are indifferent to the investment aspect of the amp and prefer a cleaner amp. .. you can get any number of great Boogie amps for 850.

but the 2C is second in the chain as an investment amp. It is worth seeing what clean 2c s are selling for.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 12 Dec 2015 10:37 am

.....an EV 12L sounds pretty good with this amp for guitar or steel .... Jim

Lefty · Post by **Lefty** » 12 Dec 2015 10:45 am

From what I have heard they really nailed the overdriven lead tone with the IIC. I believe it was also the first to have truly silent channel switching.
I own three Boogie amps: Mark IIB 1-12 with all options, a Mark IIB 1-15 with an Altec speaker and a Mark I reissue with EV speaker.
The 1-15 sounds really the best for Pedal steel.
The weight of all amps may be a factor if you have back problems, or are old like I am.
They are quality products.
I bought the 1-15 about 8 years. It was a blond in really clean shape with the original Anvil road case and Altec speaker. I paid 950.00 I believe.
regards,
Lefty

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 12 Dec 2015 5:05 pm

well I picked her up today. I was surprised by how small and heavy these are. Huge transformer. He came down a bit to $800. I pulled the trigger because I hardly see any "c"s around. Though it doesnt have graphic eq, the "c" model comes with a "deep pull" feature which extends the low freq. If I like it enough I may split the combo in two and make a speaker cab a bit larger for better low end. Two piece should be easier on the back too. There's a B marked on the chassis so I guess this one was made by b0b. Bob if your there, I'm curious if the one you let get away had the graphic or not. The "c+"s are the most coveted and the "c"s might be the next.
Thanks for the useful info from all above. I've only played steel with ss and have been itching for a silverface for a while. From what I've gathered the MB's should cover this base well.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 12 Dec 2015 5:14 pm

Congrats. ..I think you will be very happy you did this.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 12 Dec 2015 7:48 pm

Steven Welborn wrote: There's a B marked on the chassis so I guess this one was made by b0b. Bob if your there, I'm curious if the one you let get away had the graphic or not.

The "one that got away" was a 60 watt Mark IIB with no graphic EQ. It was a great sounding amp.

I built a lot of those Mark IIC amps, four at a time on the workbench. The _B was my mark on inside of the chassis, near the input jacks.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 12 Dec 2015 8:25 pm

On average what were the differences between the B and C t hat you noticed?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 12 Dec 2015 10:06 pm

Sorry, I don't really remember difference between them, sound wise. The circuits were nearly identical, but two amps made in the same week could sound different. There is a serendipity that happens with component tolerances in tube amps that makes some sound spectacular, while others are so-so. Resistor and capacitor values are approximate, +-20% or more, and the combination of all of those variances really does affect the final tone of the amp.

The main improvements in the IIC were the footswitch and the bass boost - not a big deal IMHO.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 13 Dec 2015 8:29 am

I turned my old Twin into a IIB back before I had sense. I show the IIC+ as not having a cathode-follower stage... one secret of the IIB was the crazy way they over-amped the CF (with a tube section with a 1M plate resistor) to get square-wave distortion. The cleans sounded sterile to me, but the grind was great. I'd say for steel the IIC+ would be a better bet than the IIB.

http://schematicheaven.net/boogieamps/boogie_mkiib.pdf

http://schematicheaven.net/boogieamps/b ... c_plus.pdf

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 13 Dec 2015 12:36 pm

ok, i've discovered the endless controversy regarding Mesa's non-adjustable fixed bias. There seems to be general agreement that MB's are biased on the cold side. There's differing opinions as to why (why a cold bias AND why non-adjustable). To cut to the chase, a lot of guy's have modded there Boogies with adjustable bias pots giving more tube choice options with the ability to optimize the bias for one's favorite NOS tube or whatever. B0b, wondering if you have a take on this AND
maybe in the case of the 'one that got away', it ended up for whatever reason biased a little hotter or less cold the the others?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 13 Dec 2015 5:02 pm

I'm not an electronic engineer. I don't even know what bias means.

Steven Welborn · Post by **Steven Welborn** » 13 Dec 2015 5:51 pm

b0b wrote:I'm not an electronic engineer. I don't even know what bias means.

me neither. I'm not even a techie. I just brushed up on tube biasing myself. What I understand is that it's about adjusting the current flow through the tube so it's neither running too cold nor too hot. Too cold you get crappy sound. Too hot you loose head room and tube life. I'm sure others could explain with much better detail than I. Most other tube amp makers including Fender included adjustable bias pots so you could 'bias' tubes as needed.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 13 Dec 2015 8:09 pm

From my understanding is that cold bias gives more life and reliability from the tubes with a small tonal sacrifice.

However. ... the fact is that there are variations in the optimum bias levels of any identically manufactured tube. . referred to as idle current. So. .. if you buy matched pair or quad through a specialty tube store you can have them pick tubes that have high idle current thus making the fixed bias unimportant issue as the high idle run the tubes at the optimum operating point. That's power tubes.

Mesa also has reportedly cold biased preamp tubes so they Color in the signature Boogie way. Might be the newer Rectifier series that does this.

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 14 Dec 2015 10:26 am

b0b wrote:I'm not an electronic engineer. I don't even know what bias means.

It means how much the tubes turn on. For Class A, single-ended ( Fender Champ, many 5W single-ended amps ) it sets the duty cycle of the output from the tube(s). DC should be blocked by stuff after the final tubes. It's a means in this case of changing the distortion profile of the amp.

For Class A/AB complementary/push-pull ( Deluxe, Twin, AC15/30, Marshall ) , it's purely about how much of the tube you are using. This will also influence the distortion profile but not like in single-ended amps. It will influence the output power potential.

Push-pull amps may also use negative feedback, which further tunes the distortion spectrum.

*A* way to understand tube bias is through seeing graphs of the transfer function of an amp:
http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/u ... ias.79049/

SO now you have two problems: understanding bias, and understanding what transfer functions mean

So now we can set "bias" in software. I use a "function shaper" software to do this in post in my DAW, mainly to get bass parts to fit in the mix better.

None of this matters as a user of an amp; just buy the one that you like the sound of.