The Carpenters

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 1 Dec 2015 2:31 pm

Just watched the Carpenters documentary on PBS. Not very well produced and it skirts around the complicity of those who knew her in not getting her help for her anorexia, though it was a little understood condition back then. One of the first records I bought was a Carpenters record. I was pretty much excoriated by my friends for my bad choice in music. And as I got older and my taste developed I came to view their music as lame, un-bluesy, white bread, manufactured show business crap. Nevertheless, once in a while driving in the car, Karen Carpenter's voice came on the radio and I was stopped in my tracks by her voice.

Now years later, seeing the documentary, I can see how Richard really brilliantly created their sound in the studio and just how perfect their intonation and intertwined harmonies were. There's something about sibling harmony - from the Everly Brothers to the Andrews Sisters - that's special.

This live clip doesn't seems to be a lip synch and the best qualities of their sound are evident, I think. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2blmVNXWVBY

A lot of their music WAS treacle, out of step with the times, etc. and I'm not gonna be buying any Carpenters records but when I listen to the texture and timbre of Karen's voice today I find it instantly identifiable and moving. Not a bad legacy, I suppose.

Tim Russell · Post by **Tim Russell** » 1 Dec 2015 2:54 pm

I've always loved the Carpenter's music. Very professional, well produced...and Karen was a fabulous drummer!

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 1 Dec 2015 2:57 pm

I, like many young guys, was in love with Karen back then...her voice seemed so pure and lush.

The "Top of the World" tune was one of the steel guitar laced ones that pushed me further towards one day learning to play one.

Besides the Bacharach melodies, Richard's songwriting and arranging was stellar. The harmonies I think are just perfect and still touch many heartstrings of those that will listen yet today.

Karen's affliction and untimely passing was indeed a tragedy.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 1 Dec 2015 3:43 pm

They are one of those groups that had a couple of nice records, but the hits were the best stuff they did: Close To You, Rainy Days, Superstar. The catalog is not very deep, IMO. Karen did have a very memorable and plaintive voice. Richard was talented as an arranger, but ultra-square.

I kind of feel the same way about a few other artists who have the same effect on me: B.J. thomas, for example.

But I really loved listening to Pop radio back in the 60s and 70s.

Michael Haselman · Post by **Michael Haselman** » 1 Dec 2015 6:27 pm

I saw the special also. I used to say the Carpenters were my "guilty pleasure." As I got older the guilt went away. Her voice was such a gift, it just soared. Made even their sappier stuff worthwhile. Kinda like Charlie Parker with strings. Well, maybe that's a stretch but I just loved her phrasing, tonality, vibrato, etc.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 2 Dec 2015 11:38 am

they only sold 100 million records......

her voice is one of the absolute wonders of pop music.

here is a mix of just her vocals. you get to hear joe osborn play his famous old jazz bass with a pick on old flatwounds that he played on so many hits. hal blaine on drums.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvhE2Xes1h8

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 2 Dec 2015 11:56 am

her voice is one of the absolute wonders of pop music.

Bill, after paying almost no attention to her for 40 years but listening to her again over the last few days, I have to agree.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 2 Dec 2015 2:26 pm

If you have Hulu I believe their entire 1970 Ed Sullivan appearance is on there. Its lip syncâ€™d â€“ but they could also bring it live. Back in the day they were a running joke amongst the â€œHipâ€ intelligencia and they were consistently knocked in the rock press. I know I thought they were cornball.

Looking back itâ€™s clear to me Karen Carpenter could smoke all the Rolling Stone Magazine perennial favorites put together. The Carpenter's songs â€“ songwriters - arrangements and musicians were pro LA big time all the way â€“ textbook on how to cut a hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAb-wbMHEYY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpCHruyvxwQ

"they only sold 100 million records......"

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Dec 2015 5:11 am

Back before auto-tune was de rigueur, there were a few pop singers that had incredible voices, and Karen was one of them. There was a palpable ache in her voice, so when she sang of pain, you could feel that pain.

Back in the day they were a running joke amongst the “Hip” intelligencia and they were consistently knocked in the rock press. I know I thought they were cornball.

I suspect that particular brand of rock is to music as a demolition derby is to automobiles.

Stephen Gregory · Post by **Stephen Gregory** » 3 Dec 2015 9:28 am

Turn on terrestrial radio now and u only hear rap or c-rap from the auto-tuned pretenders. The Carpenters are the real deal.

Will Houston · Post by **Will Houston** » 3 Dec 2015 9:43 am

Some nice harmonies with her bro too. Always liked Superstar.

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 3 Dec 2015 5:22 pm

I loved everything about Karen Carpenter! Her voice was beyond gorgeous. Their music wasn't square to me. Of course I was listening mostly to the Stanley Brothers and Flatt and Scruggs. What did I know about square?

Tom

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 4 Dec 2015 5:53 am

The thing that is really nice about her singing is that she does it mostly at the level of speaking, enabling her to use the nuances of her voice to express emotion. She didn't really have vocal "chops", so to speak, and was a reluctant singer. But singing with such intimacy is one of the most difficult things to do, as it really exposes your imperfections. You don't hear those imperfections in her unless she wanted you to.

Another singer who comes to mind in that vein is Judee Sill. Completely different voices, but similar approaches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdnQkQYT63E

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 4 Dec 2015 9:08 am

Astrid Gilberto is another formally untrained singer whose sound has a lot of intimacy and charm. she sang around the house and then was more or less prodded into a career.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 4 Dec 2015 9:57 am

And then .... there's this ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMmYG_7fpTc

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 4 Dec 2015 10:32 pm

Ha, that was amazing!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 Dec 2015 11:23 pm

It's a laugh that someone like Taylor Swift is considered a hyped talent(nada) when you look at Karen Carpenter. No pitch correction. Perfect intonation and playing drums at the same time! Superior talent. The Queen Of Easy Listening Music. I'm going to get a greatest hits CD.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 5 Dec 2015 4:59 am

Andy Volk wrote:And then .... there's this ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMmYG_7fpTc

Guess Richard had his moments of un-squareness.

I have two of Astrid G.'s albums, very much in the tradition of Brazilian singers, plus a little sharpness, but I love her.
Hubby Joao saw some commercial potential I think; she even recorded an LP with Gil Evans, which is pretty impressive in itself.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 5 Dec 2015 9:18 am

I have her record with Walter Wanderly on organ. Good, somewhat cheesy, stuff even though she always sings a bit flat.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 5 Dec 2015 10:08 am

Clearly her best work was w/ Getz/Gilberto, another record you and I both have.

Karen though--one has to admit, Close To You hangs around your mind like a warm shawl. It seems both women were reluctant singers.
Ah, the music biz. Good as Karen was on drums, Richard should have been the drummer. She would have appeared more effective behind a piano.
IMO, of course.

Barry Blackwood · Post by **Barry Blackwood** » 5 Dec 2015 10:18 am

She didn't really have vocal "chops", so to speak, and was a reluctant singer.

Say what you will, Mike, you're not going to ruin it for me..

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 5 Dec 2015 10:49 am

Barry Blackwood wrote:
She didn't really have vocal "chops", so to speak, and was a reluctant singer.
Say what you will, Mike, you're not going to ruin it for me..

Why would I want to? I dig her, too. Actually, those were things she said about herself, too, as she is another of those who didn't think she had a good voice.

Charlie, it's funny that another of Herb Alpert's finds, Gino Vannelli, was also a drummer/singer, at least for his first record.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 5 Dec 2015 11:00 am

I did not know that about Gino Vannelli. Talented man. Watched him set up the sound at a concert of his; liked to control the quality.
Herb Alpert is I think another guy who spawned several good musicians into the mainstream.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 5 Dec 2015 12:44 pm

This thread's run it's course, I think, but here's a last bit from Hal Blaine who says it was he who told Karen to sing in a lower register.

http://www.jazzwax.com/2012/05/hal-blai ... enter.html

Les Cargill · Post by **Les Cargill** » 5 Dec 2015 12:48 pm

Charlie McDonald wrote:I did not know that about Gino Vannelli. Talented man. Watched him set up the sound at a concert of his; liked to control the quality.
Herb Alpert is I think another guy who spawned several good musicians into the mainstream.

They cover the Herb Alpert origin story in the film "The Wrecking Crew". Very interesting.