Price of Franklin

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 28 Jun 2015 3:25 pm

I may not believe a Mercedes should cost as much as it does, or that it is "worth" that much, but it's obvious that there is a segment of the market to whom they are clearly worth the price. Those who don't feel that way are fortunate to have many other fine brands to choose from at a lower price point that they may prefer. It's part of Capitalism, folks: the market tells you the "truth" of what something is worth, not the peanut gallery on online forums (or even on street corners).

So, really the only valid statement to be made is that a given item is not worth the asking price to you. If no one steps up to buy it at that price, then you can say that it's really not worth that price at all (at least not at this moment in time, among the people aware of the item for sale, and having the necessary disposable cash) as the market agrees with your position. On the other hand, if someone buys it at that price, then you should shake your head in amazement, revise upward your understanding of its market value, and take a seat. No offense intended.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 28 Jun 2015 5:07 pm

What Wally says is true; it will hold its value as an investment and its value will help preserve it.
I question whether this is the place for the discussion.

Does the OP want to buy? Is the OP aware that the seller has other considerations?
Is he emboldened by past similar discussions that some deem objectionable?
Is this really any of his business any more than mine? More questions are raised than answered,
and they seem to be for the purpose of keeping the issue stirred up for no good reason as if the specifics aren't important.
I think the OP's statement that he wouldn't sell high might be fine unless he were in a similar situation.

New and prospective members will fall into two groups, those that shake their heads and those that think the drama is cool.
Discussions about the ethics of selling should appear in Feedback, somewhat under wraps.

The seller could be asking for more, but anyone who reads here knows that he needs to convert something he hates to sell
to cover the effects of a recent mishap. This topic brings up issues so broad that nothing is off-topic.
It causes divisiveness that brings defense as we divide into two groups to defend the seller's position or
take the opportunity to place the blame on capitalism, inferring greed rather than need.

I'd defer to any of the members here with real credibility if I'm out of line, but the passive way in which the issue is introduced
as a hypothetical one, asserting that there is no harm where names aren't named, doesn't help the seller do what he has to do.
No one else is in his place, but we are all members of the forum watching this issue and waiting for it to close unresolved.

Worth? What's a member worth? What's a valued friend to the forum, Ricky, worth?

Danny Letz · Post by **Danny Letz** » 28 Jun 2015 5:19 pm

Wally, I hope yall are right about Zums. I might could retire and come to Lubbock and ride around with you in the helicopter. I could change oil and sharpen the blades and stuff for you.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 29 Jun 2015 2:33 am

Every time a Franklin comes up for sale, on the forum, there is a big discussion like this on the price. Those that are hollering about the price are not the ones that would buy it so they can be discounted. There are many others that would like to have a Franklin but can't afford the current market values. Thus that leaves the segment that are buying them.

Mr Franklin (Sr) told me a couple of years ago that if I ever wanted to sell mine to let him know. He stated "I have a long list of those willing to pay big bucks for a used Franklin".

If I had not bought my Franklin new in 81 I would be in the segment that could not afford one now (The Franklin replaced a 71 PP Emmons and it was sold immediately).

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jun 2015 3:17 am

well I'll play , I suppose I could pay for a Franklin and a mid Year 67/427 Vette as well, but I have no intention of buying either ! It would not be a wise way to spend money.

It's an incorrect assumption that all people can't afford an item and that's why they don't buy it, it may very well be they approach financial stewardship in a different way.

I am no stranger to paying for vintage or high priced rare gear. Understanding why you bought it and for what purpose is always part of the equation .

At some point, those of us that have acquired so called vintage rare gear have come to realize that the markets have changed and attempting to "move" that gear becomes an issue.

And no, if I spent 10 grand on a fine Franklin axe, I would not leave the house with it to play an $80 gig. Just like those that own 67 Vettes rarely leave the garage with them. They are not daily drivers and you don't want to turn a $150K car into a daily driver...

Now many say they play out on a Franklin all the time, but I would ask, did you spend 10 grand on it or something more like 5K which is more reasonable for a high dollar working axe. ( horn)

To me, a 10K Franklin would be an investment into something of beauty, not intended for weekly gigs at the local gin mill.

It's not always about money.

Plus my two Sho Buds would be upset if I brought the Franklin home !

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 29 Jun 2015 4:16 am

Tony, my Franklin is played out every week, but as I previously noted it was bought in 1981, at 1981 prices.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jun 2015 4:42 am

Look, Frank. If you don't like the price, don't buy them.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 29 Jun 2015 6:04 am

The Franklin steel is worth whatever the market says its worth. Paul Franklin senior built the last Sho-Bud that I owned and I have no idea if he used any of his innovations on it. I do know that relative to other Sho-Buds that I owned it had excellent sustain, super smooth mechanics and rock solid pedal stops. The best guitar I've ever seen on this forum is not a Franklin, but the D-10/12 two tone MSA that Johnny Cox used to own. I sincerely think that guitar is worth a lot more than $5K!

Glenn Demichele · Post by **Glenn Demichele** » 29 Jun 2015 7:11 am

56 Fender Stratocaster: $4924/lb.
Guitar Center off-the-shelf new American Strat: $206/lb.
Ricky's Franklin: $130/lb.
Sounds like a bargain to me

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 29 Jun 2015 7:36 am

Hamburger. ..3 dollars a pound. ..

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jun 2015 7:47 am

Jack Stoner wrote:Tony, my Franklin is played out every week, but as I previously noted it was bought in 1981, at 1981 prices.

yes Jack we know, and thats what I am saying. My comment applies only to paying 10K for a weekly player. Something I personally would not do. Spending 10K an an axe like the one being offered, it would be specifically for collector and bragging rights ! It's a beauty...

By the way, THIS is on the inside my the SB Pro III which I just acquired and restored.

Kevin Raymer · Post by **Kevin Raymer** » 29 Jun 2015 10:41 am

All I could say is if I meet a Franklin for sale with $10 Large in my pocket I'll throw Down...

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 29 Jun 2015 11:38 am

Maybe there are people who have the money and want to play a Franklin or whatever else floats their boat. If you dont have the money or dont want to spend that much it doesnt really matter then. There shouldn't be this debate and for sale ad bashing every time a Franklin pops up for sale.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 29 Jun 2015 12:01 pm

i think it's the 'wow' factor of the discrepancy of value that gets people talking. it's understandable.
interestingly enough, bobby black probably still has the honky cat franklin, but chooses to play his carter.
so the obvious question is, why three times as much or more for one tool as opposed to another that pretty much gets the job done?
and you can spend even more for a bigsby that won't even do what the carter does!

Karl Paulsen · Post by **Karl Paulsen** » 29 Jun 2015 12:10 pm

Frank Parish wrote:You know what I love all steel guitars and Paul Sr is certainly the man for steel guitars but $10,000 and anything more is just way out of line for a working musician. Mind all of you here about ten years ago I passed up a black D-10 Franklin 8/4 simply cause I bought a lot more guitar for a lot less money. The Franklin is a fine guitar but for a working musician I don't know how they could afford it. Love to you all and I hope it sells for your price! I can tell you honestly I wouldn't ask that kind of price simply cause I'm just not made that way and I'd never be a salesman no matter how much I needed the money.

"Way out of line for a working musician"

Ah, but you see this guitar and others of it's ilk are not really intended for "working musicians". They tend to be (depending on the instrument) high examples of the craft intended for extremely talented musicians and/or extremely rare and collectible examples of the development of the instrument or a particular builder's innovation.

Also, "Way out of line" and "I'd wouldn't ask that kind of price" are potentially pretty judgmental phrases, but this is the internet and I can't see your facial expression so I will say no more.

Lastly, as others have said, professional (and not necessarily even those at the top of the game) string players of all types routinely own and play instruments even bows that are well over (sometimes several times) $10k.
My Brother's Cello was over 6 grand when he got it at the end of high school and if he'd ended up playing even semi-professionally, he would likely have paid double or more for his next cello.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jun 2015 12:21 pm

Frank apparently doesn't think Bruce Bouton is a working musician.
The late Ed Ferris played bluegrass on a Hoffman bass (and my dad does so on a Karl Maisel).

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 29 Jun 2015 12:27 pm

I've never owned or played a Franklin and I'm sure they are great guitars, but $10,000, not hardley. Of course, as Jim Cohen said, it's worth what it will bring but don't think it will ever fetch that.
The questions are, are they better than other name brand guitars? Personal opinion
Are they more collectable? Personal opinion
Are they worth that big of bucks? Personal opinion
If you don't understand by now, it all boils down to ones personal preference. That's why they make Chevys and Mercedees. This is all my personal opinion so it really doesnt mean crap to any one else.
By the way, if you into just collecting steels, buy you an Emmons push pull, one of the greatest guitars ever made for about one third the price.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 29 Jun 2015 12:33 pm

Karl Paulsen wrote:
Ah, but you see this guitar and others of it's ilk are not really intended for "working musicians".

what?? you mean mr. franklin didn't design and build these steels for working musicians??
c'mon!!

oh...he designed and built them for his son?
the workinest musician amongst us!

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 29 Jun 2015 12:39 pm

What's silly about this is that $10K is peanuts for most vintage guitars, like what the other guy in your band is playing. I would have no problem playing out on that guitar.

My main axes when I was playing four nights a week were a '54 Tele that my friend Gene put a bender in and a '57 Strat. Those and the Emmons or Professional were my axes in all sorts of dives.

Pedal steel players have long been known as the crabby old ladies of the band and this thread sure reveals that trend. If you cannot afford the instrument butt out. You got $10K and a choice between the guitar or a well used Camry or a beater BMW? Choice seems pretty obvious to me...

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 29 Jun 2015 12:51 pm

I can afford a BMW, but I bought a BMI. Great little guitar.

Tom Quinn · Post by **Tom Quinn** » 29 Jun 2015 12:52 pm

Lee Baucum wrote:I can afford a BMW, but I bought a BMI. Great little guitar.

-LLL- Ya did good Lee!

Karl Paulsen · Post by **Karl Paulsen** » 29 Jun 2015 1:03 pm

chris ivey wrote:
Karl Paulsen wrote:
Ah, but you see this guitar and others of it's ilk are not really intended for "working musicians".
what?? you mean mr. franklin didn't design and build these steels for working musicians??
c'mon!!

oh...he designed and built them for his son?
the workinest musician amongst us!

Very good point!

I should have said these instruments aren't being "offered for working musicians."

After all, even the most desirable and expensive vintage strat was likely first sold to a working musician or hobbyist, but that's not who they're necessarily being sold to now.

Greg Derksen · Post by **Greg Derksen** » 29 Jun 2015 3:46 pm

What does " working musician " mean,

Poor Broke Musician always need a deal despite what the market may give ?

Things sell for what they sell for,

thats it in a nutshell,

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 30 Jun 2015 12:28 am

the conversation is off track..way off track...

the question is spending $10K on a very nice Franklin.

Franks comment of "working musician" refers to the weekly gig at the Legion not the big stage, but we all knew that.

And yes of course, we have many Franklin owners who gig with them, we all know this, but thats not the question of the day and is irrelevant , unless of course you spent $10K on it !

Remove the brand name , would you spend $10 K ( 2015 money ) on an axe and bring it to the weekly Legion gig ?

The axe in question is a real beauty , probably worth every penny, but thats not the premise here.

Bill Lowe · Post by **Bill Lowe** » 30 Jun 2015 1:42 am

why not? If you have the money and thats what you want to hear and play.