Randy Beavers' Copedent?

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 15 May 2004 7:15 am

Hey Randy,

Do you mind sharing with us your E9 setup? You get a lot of jazz, "C6-sounding" stuff on your E9. Are you doing all that with a "standard" E9 copedent or do you have some unusual KLs or pedals happenin'?

Cheers,
Jimbeaux

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 15 May 2004 10:48 am

No problem Jim.

My setup is fairly standard with only one exception, in that I lower the 5th string a whole tone by itself. I think several people are doing that also.

Here goes:
Standard Emmons floor pedal setup.

P1: raise 5 and 10 1 tone
P2: raise 3 and 6 1/2 tone
P3: raise 4 and 5 1 tone

LKL toward back: raise 4 and 8 1/2 tone
LKL toward front: lower 5 1 tone
LKV: lower 5 and 10 1/2 tone
LKR: lower 4 and 8 1/2 tone

RKL: lower 6 1 tone
RKR: lower 2 1 tone with 1/2 stop, lower 9 1/2 tone

Pretty much a basic setup. You'll notice I don't raise the 1st or 2nd strings. Several players raise these with the knee lever that lowers the 6th string 1 tone. I like playing a minor chord out of the root position with this lever and the B pedal pushed. When the 1st and 2nd strings are raised you lose the 9th and major 7th tones of that chord, in that position. Many times those are the notes needed for the melody line. I like what can be done raising those strings, but for me I don't want to lose those natural notes.

I play quite a lot off the 9th string both lowered and in its natural tone. I've gone back and forth from my C neck to the E neck trying to learn the same chords as they are on the C neck. Literally doing this one note at a time. The big bass note isn't usually there, but the top three or four notes of the chord are. And those are the notes that give the chord its deffinition. Like the dominate 7th with a flat 9, or sharp 9, flat 5th etc. If you are working with a good bass, and or piano player, they will play those notes your missing anyway. And they will be heard on their insturment better than ours.

I've stumbled onto some positions that were new to me that have caused me to think differently about music in general. For instance I was looking for a 6 chord with a sharp 9th like is played on the C neck with the 8th pedal and using strings 3-5-7-10. What I found was on the E neck the top three notes were on strings 5-6-9, with pedal A pushed. This played a flat 5th down from the 6 position. Or in other words, in the flat 3rd position. Now instead of thinking of a progression of 3-6-2-5-1, I think 3,flat 3, 2, flat2, 1. My son told me this approach is what's called "tri-tones." I never saw it this way on C6th, but I should have.

I personally like the "timbre" of the E9th neck because the smaller and tighter strings have more sustain, and seem to come through better in an overall mix with the band.

Hope this helps and not confuses!
Randy

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http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html [This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 15 May 2004 at 11:48 AM.]

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 15 May 2004 11:56 am

Well,
There you have it Jimbeaux! I can't, or at least havn't yet, been able to get a handle on Randy's mental approach to his playing. And I promise you, that "mental picture" he has is the key. He keeps telling me it's really simple and laughs (which if fine,,,no problem) at me trying to stumble through his "simple" way of doing it. I keep telling him that someday he should learn the way the "big boys" do it so that he'd have a chance to get it right.

He seems content to fumble his way through it and somehow it comes out sounding like a true master is playing. Oh well!!!!
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Buck Grantham R.I.P. · Post by **Buck Grantham R.I.P.** » 15 May 2004 2:02 pm

I like the sound of the big chords on e-9th better because they seem to have more clearness and separation and sustain. And it dosen't hurt to have a brain as big as a 5 gal jug like Randy has .

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 15 May 2004 5:11 pm

Another way of looking at it is to enter a chord change 1/2 step above. For instance if the song is in C, and it is getting ready to go to F, think of playing F# instead of the C7th. The F# can be either major, minor, or major 7th in character. In the same thought pattern, if the song is getting ready to do a 2m-5-1 change, I will precede the 2m chord with a flat 3 pattern of some kind. In these positions you will find the notes of diminished, and just about every other alternate scale when you combine them with our "home" positions.

This is nothing I invented. I have heard of this theory of playing from blues and jazz players. It just never "sunk in" until now.
You can also enter a chord change from a 1/2 step below. I havn't even begun to go there yet. Music is a never ending journey!

Randy

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http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html [This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 16 May 2004 at 02:55 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 15 May 2004 10:11 pm

My son told me this approach is what's called "tri-tones."

He probably meant "try tones". Them are chords that you try to make fit where they don't belong.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 15 May 2004 11:37 pm

Randy and all,
I hope you know that I was just "funnin'" ya.

You are absolutely one of the very best and finest players I have the priviledge to know and be able to call friend.
I love ya' man!
BB

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 16 May 2004 5:30 am

"Try-Tones", I like that!

BB, I know your messin' with me. This theory reminds me of the fiddle player joke.
"What's a half step between friends?"

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 16 May 2004 5:55 am

I heard Randy play at the gospel show in Indy. I was busy with something else when he started playing and I thought to myself: "boy, that is sure some nice C6th playing". I was amazed to look up and see that he was picking on the E9th neck. Such a good player and such a nice guy too!
Erv

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 16 May 2004 7:02 am

Tri Tones....Try Tones

Cute, but any more enharmonic jokes of this sort, and I'll move this thread to Humor!

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h0ward
-----------------------------[This message was edited by HowardR on 16 May 2004 at 08:12 AM.]

Gord Cole · Post by **Gord Cole** » 16 May 2004 8:08 am

Howard : ROFLMAO !!!
--Gord

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 16 May 2004 11:56 am

And that Zum push-pull is so QUIET...

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 16 May 2004 5:07 pm

OK, Randy, thanks for 'splaining your copedent. I just have one more question for ya: what do you use for ears? LOL

See ya soon in Choo Choo, bro!
jc

Charles French · Post by **Charles French** » 16 May 2004 6:37 pm

I used to be copedent but i kicked the habit.

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 16 May 2004 7:34 pm

Randy wrote:

Another way of looking at it is to enter a chord change 1/2 step above. For instance if the song is in C, and it is getting ready to go to F, think of playing F# instead of the C7th. The F# can be either major, minor, or major 7th in character. In the same thought pattern, if the song is getting ready to do a 2m-5-1 change, I will precede the 2m chord with a flat 3 pattern of some kind.

Guess I'm a dummy.

But I can't make this work very well.Maybe I'm staying in the 1/2 step up position too long.Guess I need to buy your latest CD.But in the mean time,if you have the time could you post a couple of examples in the tab section.Never thought I'd be requesting tab but guess their is a first time for everything.Thanks so much for sharing...............bb

BTW: You were always one of my favorites at Jeff's June jams and I did buy your first record.Enough sucking up for now I guess?

Regards Bobby

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 16 May 2004 8:43 pm

It looks like Randy has it all together.
That 5th string whole tone drop B to A . Is very useful , especially in Jazz or pop stuff.
And the G# to F# 6th string drop. Paul Franklin does that all on one pedal, but there is a lot more possibilities split like Randy does.
Randy has mentioned that a few other guys are using this.
I never tried it on E9, but have used it for years on my E6(C6) I use B to A drop with my Minor 3rd pedal and the G# to F# drop with my Flatted 5th pedals, and both together to go into my Subdominant A6.

This is all good stuff and thanks Randy for taking the time to print your Copedant...........al

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 17 May 2004 11:03 am

Here is an explaination from "The Man" himself:
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The chord progression around this lick is F7th, to a A flat 7th, to a G minor. This is what I'm talking about by entering the 2 minor from a 1/2 step above. When you slide the 9th string down to the 4th fret and play that arpeggio you are playing an A flat 7th lick.
Randy Beavers
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<pre>
1 ________________________________________________________
2 ________________________________________________________
3 ________________________________________________________
4 ________________________________________________________
5 __6_______6____________________4A_4-3___________________
6 ____6B______6B-6_____________4________3B-1B_1__________
7 _______6_________6____________________________1_________
8 ___________________6-5_____4____________________________
9 _______________________5-4______________________________
10_______________________________________________________
</pre>
[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 17 May 2004 at 12:05 PM.]

Bobby Boggs · Post by **Bobby Boggs** » 17 May 2004 11:42 am

There we go.Thanks Randy and Ricky....bb

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 9 Jul 2004 9:51 am

I just found this thread, and I think it deserves a 'bump' - thanks, Randy!

If I'd seen this before I watched you at Chattanooga, I wouldn't have had such a culture-shock!

Great thoughts! One of my favourite 'passing chords', moving from, say, D major at the fifth fret to G7 (or G9) at the third, is to start pedals-down at the fifth, of course; then hit 9, 7, 6 and 5 at the fourth fret with 5 lowered a half-tone. Let off the 'knee' as you slide to the third. Continue to the first fret, hitting 8,7,6,5 with A and B pedals, and lowering the 8th.....

The more I learn, the more that getting a PSG seems like winning the Lottery...

Roger[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 09 July 2004 at 10:55 AM.]

John McGann · Post by **John McGann** » 9 Jul 2004 10:43 am

Many thanks to Randy for sharing, Jim for asking...what a great privledge to "hang" here and get this kind of information!

b0b, you know you rock!!!

Now, to try and get the seeds planted in the brain furrows...

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http://www.johnmcgann.com
Info for musicians, transcribers, technique tips and fun stuff.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 9 Jul 2004 2:26 pm

(He keeps telling me it's really simple and laughs)

Thats what he said when he tried to explain how he does harmonics,still don't see why he don't get his thumbpick tangled up when he does it,(and so clear,sounds like little bells)

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 10 Jul 2004 2:47 am

Since Roger brought this thread back up, let me add another tidbit of information. When you play the flat 3 to a 2 minor progression, you don't always need to play out of the "non pedal" flat 3 position, in this case the 4th fret. If the song is in F and getting ready to go to a G minor, also use 9th and 11th frets with A & B pedals down. Or pedal A & the D lever on the 9th fret. Then you can work your way back 1 fret to the 8th fret starting on the 9th string for the 2 minor. By the way, I use the 8th fret as a G minor position, starting on the 9th string with A & B down.[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 10 July 2004 at 03:49 AM.]

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 10 Jul 2004 5:44 am

Randy or Al,

Could you give some examples of using the 5 lower whole step change? I have the 5 and 6 lower split on 2 levers (TW setup) and can't find nuttin' to do with the 5 lower by itself

thx

bob

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 10 Jul 2004 6:31 pm

I like to play a major 7th with the 5th string lowerd a whole tone. For example, F major 7th, 8th fret, lower the 9th string a half tone, and the 5th a whole, and play strings 9, 6, 5, and 4. The major 7th and the tonic are a half step apart in the same octave. If you were to play 5 and 6 together without any other strings it sounds dissonate, but in the chord it works.

I also like to use the same type of voicing when playing a minor 9th. D minor 9th. 8th fret, lower 5 a whole tone and play strings 7, 6, 5, 4, and 1. Again there is a chromatic interval between the minor 3rd and the 9th.

These are the same voicings I've used on the C6th while lowering the 5th string there a whole tone.

Thanks,

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Randy
http://hometown.aol.com/pulltightb/home.html

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 10 Jul 2004 7:56 pm

Thanks, Randy

Good stuff

bob