Horseshoe Pickup, Aluminum

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 2 Mar 2015 12:38 pm

I decided to see if I could make some sort of horseshoe type pickup from aluminum. The guitar pickup can be attached inside, possibly magnets attached to the top of the inside of the bars (bar magnet?). I didn't see why it had to be 3 different pieces, so I machined it as a single piece.

Just an idea:

Wayne

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 2 Mar 2015 1:11 pm

nice work!

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 2 Mar 2015 2:53 pm

The original two versions -- Rickenbacher and Epiphone -- and then Bigsby which resembled the Epiphone -- were multi piece for a reason.

Let's look at the Rick horseshoe -- you have the two cobalt Cs facing each other North to North on top both the coil and South to South on the underside. The coil in the middle. How are you going to replicate that with bar magnets? Two bar magnets above the strings and two below the coil? What about the sides? How will you have room for a coil and the magnets you are adding?

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 2 Mar 2015 4:41 pm

Chris Lucker wrote:The original two versions -- Rickenbacher and Epiphone -- and then Bigsby which resembled the Epiphone -- were multi piece for a reason.

Let's look at the Rick horseshoe -- you have the two cobalt Cs facing each other North to North on top both the coil and South to South on the underside. The coil in the middle. How are you going to replicate that with bar magnets? Two bar magnets above the strings and two below the coil? What about the sides? How will you have room for a coil and the magnets you are adding?

In no way could my design replicate the function of an original horseshoe pickup, and for exactly the reasons you bring up. I guess I should have mentioned my intentions in designing my pickup. It is simply to have the look, or appearance, of a horseshoe pickup, for my fry pan design guitars.

Aluminum is not magnetic we know. However, it does affect the magnetic field, at least shields the field. I am simply experimenting with ideas. I will try putting a magnet over the strings. What affect this will have on the tone, the sound, I don't know, or if it will have any affect at all. I suspect it will, but will it be good or bad? I don't know.

Just thought I'd post about my idea, see what kind of response there might be, if any. ??

I will mount one of my hand wound pickups inside this aluminum part, and will try it with/without additional magnet(s). I may also get some magnetic tape, and it can follow the shape of the entire insides, and also I can simulate the magnetic poles positioning of an original horseshoe, with the tape. Will this be good? Don't know yet.

Wayne

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 2 Mar 2015 6:21 pm

I have a bit of experience here

It is simply to have the look, or appearance, of a horseshoe pickup, for my fry pan

The "look" is what is trademarked by RIC International ... I know it we'll, "Two rectangular pieces of metal over the electronics" ... To summarize.

Jason Lollar settled the lawsuit out of court... Details are sealed ... But his product is back on the market ...

If you want a real "legal" horseshoe for your customers ... Go with Jason ... They are spectacular.

Aluminum is not magnetic we know. However, it does affect the magnetic field, at least shields the field

Magnetic lines of force travel through aluminum as they do through air. There will be no "magnetic shielding" by the aluminum. No shaping, no nothing ...

It will act as a RF and EMF shield though ... So that's a plus ...

Just trying to help ...

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 2 Mar 2015 7:13 pm

Rick Aiello wrote:I have a bit of experience here

It is simply to have the look, or appearance, of a horseshoe pickup, for my fry pan
The "look" is what is trademarked by RIC International ... I know it we'll, "Two rectangular pieces of metal over the electronics" ... To summarize.

Jason Lollar settled the lawsuit out of court... Details are sealed ... But his product is back on the market ...

If you want a real "legal" horseshoe for your customers ... Go with Jason ... They are spectacular.

Aluminum is not magnetic we know. However, it does affect the magnetic field, at least shields the field
Magnetic lines of force travel through aluminum as they do through air. There will be no "magnetic shielding" by the aluminum. No shaping, no nothing ...

It will act as a RF and EMF shield though ... So that's a plus ...

Just trying to help ...

Ah, I see. Well I certainly do not need a law suit on my hands. Perhaps I can leave the gap off, then it's only one piece of metal across the top. The split is simply for looks. Or a Lollar horseshoe pickup can be installed, or one of your pickups.

BTW, a customer of mine is waiting for a pickup of yours to be made, some new design, which he will send to me to go into the frypan guitar I'm building for him. Your work is well known and appreciated.

Some of my frypan guitars have an aluminum backing instead of wood, so the entire guitar body is a RF/EMF shield.

Wayne

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 2 Mar 2015 7:39 pm

Not to pile on, but you have magnetic tape that simulates Cobalt steel alloy magnets? Where do you get that? The Bat Cave?

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 2 Mar 2015 8:13 pm

Chris Lucker wrote:Not to pile on, but you have magnetic tape that simulates Cobalt steel alloy magnets? Where do you get that? The Bat Cave?

In my post I said, "I may get some magnetic tape...." Actually, I'm on my way to the bat cave.

I'm experimenting.

Think 'outside the box/cave.'

Wayne

Quotes from Thomas Edison
..."I have not failed 700 times. I have not failed once. I have succeeded in proving that those 700 ways will not work. When I have eliminated the ways that will not work, I will find the way that will work."

..."Thomas Edison, who said, "I have not failed 10,000 times. I have successfully found 10,000 ways that will not work."

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 3 Mar 2015 4:24 am

BTW, a customer of mine is waiting for a pickup of yours to be made, some new design,

Yes, every few years I get a new idea ... This ones going to be stellar

Chris, I build a neodymium magnetic array (similar to a Stelter) ... That produces a perfect dipole across the air gap ... Far superior to the cobal steel horseshoe in strength and uniformity ...

It is extremely difficult to build, massive repulsions had to be overcome ... Had to build spring loaded assembly clamps, etc ...

In the immortal words of Frank Zappa ... "Necessity (and avoiding laywers) is the Mothers of Invention"

Keep experimenting, Wayne ... That's where the fun is

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 3 Mar 2015 7:52 am

Rick Aiello wrote:
BTW, a customer of mine is waiting for a pickup of yours to be made, some new design,
Yes, every few years I get a new idea ... This ones going to be stellar

Chris, I build a neodymium magnetic array (similar to a Stelter) ... That produces a perfect dipole across the air gap ... Far superior to the cobal steel horseshoe in strength and uniformity ...

It is extremely difficult to build, massive repulsions had to be overcome ... Had to build spring loaded assembly clamps, etc ...

In the immortal words of Frank Zappa ... "Necessity (and avoiding laywers) is the Mothers of Invention"

Keep experimenting, Wayne ... That's where the fun is

Rick, I'm looking forward to trying out your new pickup.

Neodymium magnets? Always wondered about using Neodymium magnets in a guitar pickup.

Wayne

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 3 Mar 2015 8:06 am

Yeah, I started using them while building magnet assemblies for Jason L. ... 10+ yrs ago now ... $:\$

It's tough to get them to do what you want ... They behave badly

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 3 Mar 2015 8:27 am

Rick Aiello wrote:Yeah, I started using them while building magnet assemblies for Jason L. ... 10+ yrs ago now ... $:\$

It's tough to get them to do what you want ... They behave badly

Well, I would like to build a pickup, an 8 string single coil, and use neodymium magnets instead of alnico 5 magnets. I have a source to buy 3/16" x .75" magnets. Have you tried something like this?

Wayne

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 3 Mar 2015 8:47 am

They don't function well as pole pieces, if that's what you mean ...

Using them to feed steel slugs or blades ... Is the way to go when first messing around with them ...

Be careful ... I crushed the tip of my finger a few years back ... When one of the unruly £%#¥ers didn't want to go where I wanted it to

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 3 Mar 2015 10:05 am

The phony horseshoes are what the Japanese JB frypans used, with a conventional coil/pickup under them.
If you are not in "business" so to speak, make whatever you want. I still have a purple heart guitar to finish, and I'm gonna use a pair of magnets that Rick Aiello gave me some years ago !!! Yeah Rick, I still have those !!

United Nuclear has all the weird shaped strong ( read dangerous) magnets.

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 3 Mar 2015 10:19 am

Bill Creller wrote:The phony horseshoes are what the Japanese JB frypans used, with a conventional coil/pickup under them.
If you are not in "business" so to speak, make whatever you want. I still have a purple heart guitar to finish, and I'm gonna use a pair of magnets that Rick Aiello gave me some years ago !!! Yeah Rick, I still have those !!

United Nuclear has all the weird shaped strong ( read dangerous) magnets.

I am in business (very small), have to consider consequences of trademark infringements, patent infringements, etc. Patents have time limits, trademarks do not.

I was sent the bars of what I believe is one of the phony horseshoe pickups, which I may put into the customers guitar. I will not take pictures of the guitar if I use the pickup parts.

Wayne

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 11 Mar 2015 10:00 am

Just checked out the Lollar Pikcup's blog. Saw a picture of his horseshoe pickup. No gap at the top, just a single bar:

In the name of the photo, even says 'legal'.

Wayne

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 11 Mar 2015 11:58 am

Btw, there is a gap...that's actually Mylar tape bridging the gap of that horseshoe.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 11 Mar 2015 12:10 pm

That blog photo was taken before the lawsuit was filed ...

It came with a notice that said removing the tape would violate a Federal Trademark ...

As previously stated, that's all over and done with now ... If you click on steel guitar pickups on his page ... You'll see them ...

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... ar-pickups

And the bass horseshoe pickups ... Which actually was the reason for all that mess in the first place ...

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... seshoeBass

W. Johnson · Post by **W. Johnson** » 12 Mar 2015 8:29 am

Rick Aiello wrote:That blog photo was taken before the lawsuit was filed ...

It came with a notice that said removing the tape would violate a Federal Trademark ...

As previously stated, that's all over and done with now ... If you click on steel guitar pickups on his page ... You'll see them ...

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... ar-pickups

And the bass horseshoe pickups ... Which actually was the reason for all that mess in the first place ...

http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... seshoeBass

Thank you for your comments and information. I've been trying to look into this a bit, following various, and I might add 'old' forum threads here and there. Information kind of drifts off in the wind at a certain point, no clarity.......

Lots of opinions and conjecture, and some facts.

Does the Rickenbacker horseshoe trademark still stand? Jason Lollar is making them again (this is awesome!)

Wayne

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 12 Mar 2015 1:35 pm

Yes ... They do .

As previously stated ... RIC International brought a lawsuit against Jason Lollar ... This lawsuit was settled out of court ... The details are "sealed" ...

Shortly after the settlement ... The horseshoes went back up on Jason's website ...

That's about it ...