Dead PSG products with no current equivalent?

Dustin Rhodes · Post by **Dustin Rhodes** » 17 Feb 2015 10:11 am

The thread on PSG companies that no longer build had me wondering. Are there any features or functionalities or even tones that are no longer represented in current new products?

And please lets not make this into a "X,Y, and Z brand get really close but no one sounds exactly like a Bud" type of thread.

Josh Braun · Post by **Josh Braun** » 17 Feb 2015 11:27 am

I might be wrong, but I don't think anybody makes anything that even tries to get the tone of the old Fender guitars (e.g., Fender 400).

I've heard a lot of great steels with different tones, but those old Fenders are fairly unique imo. For the last 2 years I've been playing a 400 with the Jaguar type pickup, and if someone had a current production pickup that was similar I'd buy it in a snapshot.

Dustin Rhodes · Post by **Dustin Rhodes** » 17 Feb 2015 11:31 am

Josh Braun wrote:I might be wrong, but I don't think anybody makes anything that even tries to get the tone of the old Fender guitars (e.g., Fender 400).

I've heard a lot of great steels with different tones, but those old Fenders are fairly unique imo. For the last 2 years I've been playing a 400 with the Jaguar type pickup, and if someone had a current production pickup that was similar I'd buy it in a snapshot.

That's one I've thought a lot about before. 8 string pedal steels with fairly simple setups.

Fred Justice · Post by **Fred Justice** » 17 Feb 2015 11:41 am

Dustin, as for as features and functionalities go,
Sierra introduced the squire fold up legs, and I haven't seen any other builder use those.
The slide in / slide out PU's is cool & costly but other than MSA, no one else is doing that either.
I'm just getting the ball rolling so to speak with the features thing, I'm sure lots of other folks have things to add.

Dustin Rhodes · Post by **Dustin Rhodes** » 17 Feb 2015 11:52 am

I'm a mechanical designer and honestly this is more about curiosity than anything but I think a lot of steel at some point being a "lost art". I'm relatively young (29) compared to a lot of the steel playing population so I'll probably see a time when its even more rare than it is today.

Jerome Hawkes · Post by **Jerome Hawkes** » 17 Feb 2015 12:44 pm

i'm pretty sure the whole keyless head idea has gone by the wayside. i haven't seen one at any shows or conventions in years. i always thought it was a good idea - most of the time the steel player is crammed in the corner of the 'stage' and saving 1 foot (+ less weight) could come in handy.

i have seen a few keyless Williams and i think GFI offers that, but rare to see in modern steels

Scott Duckworth · Post by **Scott Duckworth** » 17 Feb 2015 2:48 pm

If I ever get the funds to upgrade, a keyless GFI will be my next one...

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 18 Feb 2015 3:29 am

Perhaps some attributes died and rightly so. I consider the Sho-bud "changover" an example, whereby one can switch a pedal to operate on either neck. It's quite complex as opposed to just adding another pedal.

I haven't seen an MSA style wrist lever in years. I could see that resurfacing.

Dustin - I hope you are not right. Here's a mechanical engineering challenge. Looking forward, there is still some room for growth:
1. Aluminum on aluminum bearing points have always bothered me. - just add oil to create an aluminum slurry. How about sleeving these points with bronze bushings?
2. Very few mfgrs use a bearing to lower the friction on the changer finger.
3. Make a keyhead that uses the keyless concept but looks like, and, is dimensioned like, a conventional key head with keys for more conventional aesthetics and easier tuning without tools.
4. lighter/stronger/tuning stability without sacrificing tone and sustain.
5. and the big one - less expensive.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 18 Feb 2015 7:30 am

I can't see any disadvantage to a keyless guitar and have always liked them myself. I think they have gone to the wayside because of nothing more than (hope this is right word) prestiege. Some folks sorta look down on a keyless guitar like it's not the in thing. I think if Emmons or Zum or Mullen would have offered keyless that they would be more popular.

Also, if I were to build a guitar, ball bearings would be on everything that moved where practical. I would also devise some better way to screw legs into guitar. Maybe finer threads or something along that line. To me, the sloppiest thing about a steel, all brands included.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 18 Feb 2015 7:37 am

I might buy a double Ebow if it was reissued.

Christopher Woitach · Post by **Christopher Woitach** » 18 Feb 2015 10:43 am

Without question - I really miss Tribo-tone bars!!!! Mine was stolen, nothing sounds or feels as good, to me

Dustin Rhodes · Post by **Dustin Rhodes** » 18 Feb 2015 11:02 am

Christopher Woitach wrote:Without question - I really miss Tribo-tone bars!!!! Mine was stolen, nothing sounds or feels as good, to me

I always wanted a tribotone guitar slide but was late to the party there.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 18 Feb 2015 3:38 pm

Rus-ler's ball bearing roller nuts.

Has anybody else made or used them?

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 18 Feb 2015 5:51 pm

Dustin Rhodes wrote:
Christopher Woitach wrote:Without question - I really miss Tribo-tone bars!!!! Mine was stolen, nothing sounds or feels as good, to me
I always wanted a tribotone guitar slide but was late to the party there.

check with Telonics, they used to make a similar bar. I've no idea whether they still do or not.

Bill C. Buntin · Post by **Bill C. Buntin** » 18 Feb 2015 5:57 pm

Welded frames. MCI / EMCI? Not sure if anyone is doing that. Maybe the infinity but have not looked into it that closely.

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 18 Feb 2015 6:06 pm

Bill C. Buntin wrote:Welded frames. MCI / EMCI? Not sure if anyone is doing that. Maybe the infinity but have not looked into it that closely.

Gene Fields came up welding the frames when he was with MCI. He carried that over to his GFI steels.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 18 Feb 2015 6:06 pm

Keyhead plungers.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 18 Feb 2015 6:22 pm

OK Chris, I'll bite. Whuzzat?

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 18 Feb 2015 7:01 pm

Here are some plunger pictures from three different guitars. Operated by pedals, they push up on a string for a raise or release pressure on a string that is raised at neutral for a lower. Sometimes they pull down for a raise.
DALAND:

Bigsby:

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 18 Feb 2015 7:05 pm

How about this mess under my AJ Smith pedal steel:

Jerry Hedge · Post by **Jerry Hedge** » 18 Feb 2015 7:10 pm

Ken, I'm not Chris, but I think he was referring to the the devices that people were putting on console steels in the 50's that would change the pitch of the strings and turn non pedal guitar into pedal steels. Such conversions were popular after "Slowly" flipped the steel world on it's ear. People would have their non pedal steels converted so they could get that mysterious sound. In a way I would have liked to lived through that era. The instrument was going through a REVOLUTION that may never be equaled. As far as the Fender pickup like the ones on the 400's 800's etc. I think Jason Lollar does those.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 18 Feb 2015 7:13 pm

Another function I haven't seen since the 50's are those little push-buttons to get the 'stutter' effect (poor-man's Speedy West lick) and to change the EQ from bright to dark momentarily. I had them on my old Gibson Electraharp (may it rest in peace, or in pieces)

Jerry Hedge · Post by **Jerry Hedge** » 18 Feb 2015 9:42 pm

Sorry Chris, I didn't see your post until after I made mine

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 18 Feb 2015 10:14 pm

That's fine. The DALAND has the same mechanics that Shot Jackson was adding to Fender non pedals, the same plungers. He did the mechanics and Don Davis and Hank Garland did the other construction and Ray Butts did the humbucker pickups.

Matthew Dawson · Post by **Matthew Dawson** » 19 Feb 2015 3:31 am

Is anyone other than Clinesmith making cast necks and endplates rather than CNC?

The Steel Guitar Forum

Dead PSG products with no current equivalent?

Dead PSG products with no current equivalent?

Features