What's a good/great electrified resonator?

[Mark Eaton]

Greg, isn't this the second maple National/Scheerhorn (Nati-horn) that Matt has had up for sale? I wonder what's up with that.

And bargain priced to boot! (folks, inside joke between Greg and myself).

Paul, I have played the Rob Ickes model Nati-horn at Gryphon and I can tell you it's a monster guitar. Very loud, beautiful tone. Before you make a move on anything else if you can pull off a road trip to Palo Alto it would be worth checking out, though Matt Leadbetter's Nati-horn with Fishman already installed is pretty enticing.

While you are at Gryphon if it is still in stock they have a nice Beard Vintage R, and I am a big fan of most of Paul's models, but in an A/B comparison when I was there awhile back, IMO the rosewood/spruce Nati-horn blew it out of the water. But to be fair, if these guitars were flattops, it's more like comparing a Martin dreadnought to a smallish body 00 model.

[Mark Eaton]

Serious eye candy - since National Reso-Phonic took over producing production model guitars for Tim Scheerhorn they have also produced a handful of custom jobs called "Limiteds."

This one was sent to Artisan Guitars in Franklin outside of Nashville, priced at $4300. 20 year old cedar top with torrefied maple back and sides. When I first saw the photos a few months back I had to run and get the drool cup.

Of course some folks are saying that it can't be a "real" Scheerhorn if it wasn't touched by Tim's hands only, doesn't have the "secret sauce" but I think I could get used to this axe pretty quick and be a real happy picker.

[Dane Carlson]

My plan of action is:
1) Start taking lessons from Mike Witcher

I do this in person with Mike, even though I have to drive 90 minutes to get to his house. He's a very good teacher and I have learned quite a bit in a couple years.

2) Demo some high end guitars if possible (Gryphon Strings in Palo Alto has a Scheerhorn Rob Ickes model, and the Scheerhorn factory in San Luis Obispo is not too far away).

Definitely recommended, although I have not heard that the factory will let you come in to demo guitars. Mike will let you play on his Beard Blackbeard, Clinesmith, Scheerhorn, and others if you can go to his place for a lesson.

Listening to the demos on Mike Witcher's site, I like the Beard E model the best. That's exactly what I want a resonator to sound like. But it would cost twice as much as the Appalachian, and the Fishman would be an extra cost.

I said the same thing to myself 6 months ago...that I really only wanted to spend $2,500. I played on Mike's Blackbeard and loved it. I also played on a maple Appalachian recently purchased by a Reso Hangout member who lives on the peninsula, but I did not like the sound much at all.

I played on the E Model in Mike's video (owned by somebody else) and absolutely loved it, so I saved up a few more pennies and ordered a Beard E Model, complete with Fishman Nashville pickup, Hipshot Doubleshot tailpiece (www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FP_Zw30ZpY), and a Hipshot G2 Xtender lever (http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.p ... etail&p=90) to be able to play Open G, Open D, and Drop E tunings instantly at the pull of a lever.

Price totals about $4,800 and I expect delivery in a couple weeks. My philosophy is "Buy Once, Cry Once" and I will not need another reso for different tunings...

There is a 5-6 month lead time on builds from Beard...I ordered mine in June, and I have been like a kid at Christmas since that day.

I tell my friends "I now know how to slow time down: order something that you think about every day but won't arrive for 6 months."

[Dane Carlson]

While you are at Gryphon if it is still in stock they have a nice Beard Vintage R, and I am a big fan of most of Paul's models, but in an A/B comparison when I was there awhile back, IMO the rosewood/spruce Nati-horn blew it out of the water.

Agreed. The Beard Vintage R is dark and sweet and not loud enough for my taste. I like the Scheerhorn Ickes quite a bit, but I like the Beard E and Blackbeard both better for their tonal separation and punchy low register. The E Model has more warmth and sparkle than the Blackbeard, but the Blackbeard is a friggin cannon!

[Mark Eaton]

Dane and I were at the same event where we played the new Appalachian, and also at Gryphon the same day when we test drove the Nati-horn Ickes model.

I thought the Appalachian was very good bang-for-the-buck. And for gigging purposes with the Fishman Nashville through the JD Aura pedal it would work just fine.

Did I think it was in the same league as my Clinesmith maple? No - but then to get a new Clinesmith from Todd with current prices set up like mine would put you out about $4600 and I wouldn't doubt between the steel guitars and dobros in the queue Todd has a wait of at least a year. So you always have to keep the bang-for-the-buck and value vs. price ratio in mind. But if you just don't care for the sound of a guitar, then it doesn't matter how good a deal it is.

I agree with Jerry Douglas on a lot of, or for that matter, most things relating to dobros, and one of the reasons he started playing Beard guitars a bit over 10 years ago is he felt Paul and his crew were very consistent, and I have to agree. Starting at the R Mahogany (solid wood) and going up in the product line to the more expensive guitars, I can honestly say I've never played a Beard that I didn't like, and I have played a fair number of them in about the past dozen or so years. And yeah, Mike Witcher's JD Signature Blackbeard is a butt kicker of a resonator guitar. Steve Fishell got one for himself awhile back.

I'm looking forward to checking out Dane's Doubleshot equipped Beard E once it arrives in the Bay Area!

[Paul Sutherland]

Just got home from driving to Gryphons in the bay area to play resos. Man, how do you guys that live there put with the traffic?

I brought my Gretsch so I could truly compare it to the Beard and the 2 Scheerhorns they had in stock. They all sounded a lot better than my Gretsch, but the Rob Ickes model Scheerhorn was the clear winner of the lot. It had the well defined, crisp bass that I have been looking for.

The mahogany National Scheerhorn was second best, but it was not enough better than the Gretsch to make me want to make a deal. I really want to play a comparable solid maple reso, preferably Scheerhorn. Also, none of these 3 resos at Gryphons had pickups.

Gryphons did offer to special order a maple Scheerhorn with factory installed Fishman. I'm thinking!!??

So how would a maple National Scheerhorn compare to a Rob Ickes National Scheerhorn? Anybody played them both?

[Greg Booth]

If I were you I would have jumped on Matt's maple National Scheerhorn with the pickup installed. I don't know for sure but I bet it's gone by now.

[Mark Eaton]

A member on Reso-Nation posted this morning that he sent a PM to Matt Leadbetter re the maple Nati-horn, and Matt had just dropped the price a hundred bucks to $2500.

I haven't played the maple. But I'm pretty confident I'd like it sight unseen, but I'm also curious why Matt Leadbetter, a pro player (and son of reigning IBMA Dobro Player of the Year Phil Leadbetter) who owns at least one Tim-built Scheerhorn is now selling the second maple Nati-horn he has owned since they came on the market a little over a year ago.

Two schools of thought on the guitars. The first is that one can hear very little difference between these production models now built at National-Resophonic under the tutelage of Tim Scheerhorn, and the other school is that all things being equal in comparing a Nati-horn vs. a Tim-horn, made from the same wood "recipe," the Nati-horns just aren't as good because they don't have Tim's "secret sauce" that can only be mixed into the cauldron with his hands.

I can't say one way or the other - I just don't know. Maybe the only way I could know, as is often done in the wine industry is to hold a "blind tasting" where the bottles are placed in paper bags so that one doesn't know the identity of the wine they are sampling before writing down their score. Have a fine player like Greg Booth play different guitars while sitting there while blindfolded and try to guess which is an original Scheerhorn, and which is a National-built Scheerhorn.

Paul, I'm glad you braved the traffic to come down from the Sierra foothills to make the journey to Gryphon - it truly does suck, and on my days out on the road when I'm visiting customers for my sales job in the greater Bay Area, it can be downright fatiguing to make it home back up here to the wine country.

Once again, like Greg I think it is a very good deal on the maple Nati-horn from Matt Leadbetter, but if you didn't care for the mahogany at Gryphon, then maybe you just aren't a Scheerhorn guy. As a long time cyclist both on road and mountain bikes, and since bike riding is such a physical and sometimes strenuous act, the old saying among veteran cyclists when test riding at shops is if the bike doesn't "talk" to you - don't buy it.

I feel exactly the same way about guitars.

On the other hand, if I were a fairly new player to the instrument I would have a very different take on what I'm seeing, feeling, and hearing in test driving a dobro compared to where I'm at now.

[Greg Booth]

Mark, I'd be into making that blindfold test! I heard from Paul and all things considered, Gryphon made him the best deal. I'll leave the rest for him to share if he so chooses.

[Mark Eaton]

Yeah, I heard from Paul as well.

Wine enthusiasts are of course familiar with the famous Judgement of Paris in 1976 where a panel of French wine industry experts chose some Napa Valley wines over French bottlings overall as the best in a blind tasting competition.

What? Eet eez eempossibel! There must be some meestake! I dee-mand a recount!

[chris ivey]

good analogy, mark.

i'm glad for this thread because i've had many of the same questions.

[Jack Stripling]

Just bought this new, and got it home, and problems.
first the spider was rotated abot 3 degrees from being perpendicular to the neck, and I read that is easily fixed. second, the cover plate has been attached 1/8" to one side, so the tension screw holes don't line up, and no room to move it, without screw holes showing... haven't opened it up, but I hear there is lots of rough wood that need "adjusting", and clearances checked. also the fishman pickup needs to be checked because they don't always make it snug. The chinese don't do much of anything well...

so should I pack it up and send it back???

[Brad Bechtel]

so should I pack it up and send it back???

Yes, you should.

[Fraser Moffatt]

This is a great discussion....I'm following closely. I'm currently playing a Beard Vintage R and mic'ing that up with an A-T lavalier style mic and have a lot of issues with feedback and hearing myself on stage with a small band. I'm hitting the feedback wall at volumes just slightly louder than non-amplified. And yes, I have worked on varying the placement between speakers and mic....

I was thinking of picking up one of the Gretsch resonators with the Fishman for the exact same reasons to overcome the issues of mic-based feedback and overall audibility. love the Beard but rather than spend a ton of money experimenting with mics, DIs, different amplification options, I thought I'd go right to the Gretsch/Fishman setup and save myself the grief and expense.

But now I'm seeing that this setup doesn't necessarily guarantee the elimination of feedback, audibility and perhaps introduces issues with tone quality and playability.

So, bearing all of this in mind, what does the collective think of retrofitting my Vintage R with the Nashville pickup - then running through the Aura DI? Keep in mind that I'm a hobbyist and playing dobro in a combo for fun.

[Howard Parker]

I have a long history of gigging with my Vintage R, JD Aura pedal & Fishman Platinum Pro EQ/DI. (plus other wacky pedals)

Very flexible and remarkably feedback resistant.

It also sounds terrific.

h

[Paul Sutherland]

Just to update my journey: The great deal from Gryphons evaporated when I called back with the intention of actually putting money down. I was told they can't sell the instrument for anything less than the full list price, and the price quoted to me was a mistake. Oh well.

So I struck a deal for the Appalachian solid maple reso that was listed on Reso-Nation. The price was about 1/3 what a new Scheerhorn Maple with Fishman would have cost. Tracking shows it should arrive Monday. I'll report back.

[chris ivey]

i bet you made a good choice, paul.
as to the doubleshot mechanism...i'm skeptical about that. i don't know why. i guess i think someone should get really good on a standard tuning and i like the simplicity of the standard setup.

[Asa Brosius]

Regarding the uneven volume/tones on your gretsch: this may be patently obvious,but have you tried a propik style thumb pick? one with a hard blade that stays snug when you really dig in (volume and tone)? that was helpful for me towards matching the metal finger picks' output. i recall reading that J Douglas will shred through a regular plastic pick in the course of an evening.
I'd also recommend having someone manually help you out with the setup- as far as I know, you have the best pickup system out there. In my experience, the differences between the gretsch and the high end catalogue, while quite pronounced acoustically, are significantly less apparent via the fishman/aura at stage volume.

[Rick Winfield]

If you've got a lot of money, I'd recommend Amistar.
I don't............ so I have a Republic Steel Body, that gets the job done

[Paul Sutherland]

I received my new (to me) Appalachian maple reso on Monday, and, of course, I've been playing it a bunch. It is amazing how much more volume it has over the Gretsch. The Appalachian also sustains much more, and the lower strings don't mush out, like the Gretsch does.

I had to remove the cone to tighten the neck bolts and pickup jack, and so I've had a good look at everything. The Appalachian has much better components and is put together much better than the Gretsch. In particular I noticed that the bridge on the Appalachian, with the Fishman installed, is well fitted to the #14 spider. I can't say the same about the Gretsch.

A new Appy like mine goes for about $2000 with the Fishman installed, so it's really in a different class than the Gretsch. The Gretsch is a good instrument for the price point. But if a person wants to move up, or spend a bit more, the Appalachian would be a good choice.

I haven't yet played the Appalachian electrically, other than to briefly test the pickup. But acoustically the Appalachian is far superior to the Gretsch.

[Mark Eaton]

Glad you're enjoying the Appy Paul and I'm happy I could be of some help in your decision, whichever way you went.

China has made dramatic improvements in guitar quality, particularly in the case of acoustic flattop el cheapos over the past decade, but minus the p'up the Gretsch resonator usually sells for around $360. If we were talking flattops instead of a resonator, one wouldn't expect a $360 guitar to compare to a Martin, Taylor, or Gibson in the $1800 - $2000 range, and the difference in quality between the price range might be even more obvious in the resonator world as compared to flattops.

[Tommi Toijonen]

Dunno if this is the right thread for my question, but I already have an unelectrified Dobro Hula Blues and a LR Baggs Para DI for my Martin acoustic (that sounds very good with the piezo mic Martin has).

So what woulf you recommend as a piezo mic to be installed in Hula Blues?

I think the Fishman piezo and bridge is an option, but wouldn't any piezo glued under the brige do he same trick? KK pure resonator pick up looks like a regular piezo to me.

[Brad Bechtel]

I'd guess that if it's the piezo sound you're after, any good piezo pickup would do. Do you have a budget in mind?

[Tommi Toijonen]

Dont know if it's the piezo I'm after, but definately it's not magnetic pickup sound I want. Some woody tone for live sound.... if in studio It's LDC microphone I'm using.

I've already invested 250 bucks for the preamp, maybe a hundred for the pup would be the budjet. If cheaper, better still.

[George Rout]

My two cents here is about not hearing yourself play with the band. I have hearing aids and that is an ongoing problem. I've resolved it by using a small amp (in my case it's a Roland Mobile) right alongside me. I use a "D" Box into the house PA which the sound guy controls the volume, but I am free to control the volume in my Roland without disturbing anybody.

Paul, $100 to me and I won't tell Gibson that you're referred to your Gretsch reso as a Dobro!!!!!!

My opinion of the Chinese built guitars, particularly resos, is not that great. I taught (it didn't take much teaching for him) my grandson to play the reso. When we decided to purchase an instrument for him, we bought a leser expensive ($500) instrument for him from a major musical instrument store in Toronto. He loved it. When we got home and started jamming, there was something instantly wrong. One of us was flat. I coiuldn't believe what I saw (and heard). The intonation was so bad on the new reso, it was out by a quarter tone at the 5th fret.

We took it back, and the store owner stated, now hear this, that the position markers are there to give you an idea, but you slide up or down to the note in accordance with what you hear. He just about ended up wearing the reso. We tried about six of them, all were identical.

On a side note, I recently bought Tom Bradshaw's Reso pedal and find it to be very advantageous. A great device, I recommend it highly. It has great variable tone and effect.

Good luck Paul with your playing.

Geo