Left foot movement from AB to only A pedal: How?

John Botofte · Post by **John Botofte** » 17 Sep 2014 12:52 am

As a fairly recent PSG learner (with no teacher) I am wondering about the foot technique involved in moving between say
8A 8A
8B 8
Do you folks prefer to roll away from the B pedal or move the whole foot tip so it only touches the A pedal? I find the rolling almost impossible. Is the answer just: practice, practice, practice?
Thanks
John

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Sep 2014 2:16 am

Roll the ankle. Practice it in many iterations
Open to A to AB
Open to B to AB
Open to AB to B
Open to AB to A
AB to A to open
AB to B to open
Only reaim your foot when you need the C pedal.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 17 Sep 2014 3:23 am

Here is a video that shows a player rolling on and off the pedals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6u_3oULt7I

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Sep 2014 3:40 am

John, it IS hard to get used to, but it IS one of the important things to get down if you chose E9th for country (for that matter, I bet it's pretty handy for most classical and hymns, and nearly everything).

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 17 Sep 2014 3:40 am

John, it IS hard to get used to, but it IS one of the important things to get down if you chose E9th for country (for that matter, I bet it's pretty handy for most classical and hymns, and nearly everything).

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Sep 2014 5:20 am

I've played the Emmons setup since I started on pedal steel in 89. Sometimes I roll my foot, sometimes I'll just pedal the A pedal. It all depends.

But you do need to practice the rolling until you get it down.

The height of the A and B pedals can make a big difference. My A pedal is higher than the B. But, when they are both fully depressed they are the same height.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 17 Sep 2014 5:48 am

Also, adjust your pedal height. Play with the heights of A & B and B & C until you get them where they are comfortable to you. I have to have my A pedal quite a bit higher than B because when I roll to a only my foot will still partially press B. I guess it just depends on how flexible your ankle is. I'm sure it's different for everyone so just adjust them to fit you!

John Botofte · Post by **John Botofte** » 17 Sep 2014 7:12 am

Thanks from one happy pedal steeler in Europe! I never even thought of adjusting the pedals, just twisting my ankles till they bleed...What a difference!
So grateful for all of your advice.
Best wishes from across the Atlantic!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Sep 2014 7:16 am

I don't find rocking off the AB pedals onto the A pedal so difficult. I find rocking onto the B pedal a little harder. You really need to have your pedals adjuster properly. In fact, I have cut the corner off the A pedal to facilitate this maneuver.
I believe the early Sho~Buds came with the corner of the A pedal cut off.

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 17 Sep 2014 8:08 am

All good advice, John. I used to practice the left foot pedal moves while I was driving or sitting in a lecture, and I found the ligaments opened up over time and gave me more flexibility.
In case it hasn't come up, this is also one of the good reasons for use of the Day setup by some players, (referring to the C-B-A pedal lineup opposed to the "Emmons" style A-B-C) as the ankle moves easier to one side than the other for some. I fell off a roof long ago and dislocated my ankle, went to a Day setup for some years because the ankle healed stiff. I went back to Emmons setup eventually, but my ankle still has less movement bending to the right, so I have to take care with using B pedal alone, not to engage the A pedal a bit. This is where the balance of height adjustment between the two pedals is crucial. Even a 1/4" or one turn on the ball joint connectors makes the difference.

What a crazy instrument, huh?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Sep 2014 8:41 am

Another issue that needs to be mentioned is the type of shoes you wear when playing the pedal steel. I prefer to wear a low shoe that allows for maximum ankle motion. I know that some steelers wear boots, but to my way of thinking, that is a no-no! I like moccasins.

John Scanlon · Post by **John Scanlon** » 17 Sep 2014 10:31 am

John Botofte wrote:I find the rolling almost impossible. Is the answer just: practice, practice, practice?

Yes. Yes, it is.

Here's some helpful reading on this issue by one of the great steel teachers around who always breaks all steel moves down into their basic parts, and then puts them back together again:
https://www.pedalsteel.com/joe/Members/ ... ankle.html

Curt Trisko · Post by **Curt Trisko** » 17 Sep 2014 11:03 am

Take off your shoes and use your toes!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Sep 2014 12:20 pm

What if you play by ear?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 17 Sep 2014 1:33 pm

I can pedal equally well (or bad) regardless of the type of shoe or boots.

Rick Schacter · Post by **Rick Schacter** » 17 Sep 2014 6:48 pm

John Botofte wrote: Is the answer just: practice, practice, practice?
Thanks
John

Yes.
This helped me a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXdfQbeiLEo

**I think Lane's exercise seems like a good one too.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 17 Sep 2014 9:13 pm

Jack Stoner wrote:I can pedal equally well (or bad) regardless of the type of shoe or boots.

Same here. Actually boots are better for me. My knee levers are adjusted for the knee being a little higher from the heel. Mostly the vertical levers. My foot pivots better with the heels on cowboy boots. I don't play in anything else. I don' even like to practice in other shoes.

Find the shoes that work best for you.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 18 Sep 2014 12:58 am

If angle your feet like this \ / the available roll on your ankle from one side to the other will be less than if your feet are pointing like | |

To find a comfortable playing position that dont restrict movements, sit on your chair (away from your guitar)
Then check how much you can roll your ankle from one side to the other. Check everything from extreme \ / to having both feet straight forward like | |
Your knee should only move ever so slightly when rolling your ankle !!!!!!
Once you find a good position there will be your max distance the A pedal can be depressed without touching the B pedal. Rolling ankle the other way will tell you how much B pedal can be depressed without foot touching the A pedal.
After you have found your best position and available roll of ankle move the guitar to match how you sit and adjust height of pedals to somehow fit what your foot is able to do.
For me I find that my foot is pointing straight towards pedals when foot is over the B & C pedals
When I use the A&B pedals my foot shifts ever so slightly \ keeping my heel in more or less the same position.
My left knee does not move much when using A, A+B, B, B+C or C pedal. All the work is done by the ankle.
It allows me to have my knee levers adjusted pretty close on both sides of my knee.
Beeing able to roll the ankle without excessive movement of the knee takes practise but once you find a position that doesnt restrict movements it should be less practise and more fun playing.

B.Erlandsen

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 18 Sep 2014 1:30 am

Well put, Bengt.
Steel guitar has lots of motions that aren't natural and accustomed. This is one of them.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 18 Sep 2014 7:22 am

You have to be able to move your knee and ankle together.
I would be lost without the AF combination or the BE combination.
Also if you want to play 9th chords, you need the ABE combination. And the ABF combination to play augmented chords.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 18 Sep 2014 7:55 am

Those moves comes in addition to beeing able to use A, A+B, B, B+C or C by itself without excess movement of the knee. There is also a vertical movement thats gonna need some practise as well if you have a vertical kneelever.
There is even a couple more movements of knee/leg/ankle worth practising but that belongs on some other post/topic.

On some pedal-steel I have found that the original placement of kneelevers and pedals does not allow for a comfortable playing position. If your pedals and knee levers doesnt match up with where you feel they should be when sitting without your guitar simulating the most comfortable playing position then you need adjust pedals / levers if possible.
If you cant adjust them then you are left with either playing in a uncomfortable position or getting a different guitar.

B.Erlandsen

Bob Snelgrove · Post by **Bob Snelgrove** » 18 Sep 2014 1:57 pm

John Botofte wrote:As a fairly recent PSG learner (with no teacher) I am wondering about the foot technique involved in moving between say
8A 8A
8B 8
Do you folks prefer to roll away from the B pedal or move the whole foot tip so it only touches the A pedal? I find the rolling almost impossible. Is the answer just: practice, practice, practice?
Thanks
John

Very simple solution:

Jimmy Day Setup

bob

Jeff Watson · Post by **Jeff Watson** » 20 Sep 2014 1:45 pm

Agreed...Day setup for ergonomics sake.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 23 Sep 2014 7:23 pm

You did not say what type of guitar you had. If it is a single neck with 3 to 5 pedals you have a few choices. even moving the pedals over. Day Set up allows you to roll your foot to the right which may be easier than to the left. this is my guitar I bought used in 1989 It is not stress my foot to play the a pedal alone. The pedals run Left to right C-B-A-Franklin.

John Botofte · Post by **John Botofte** » 23 Sep 2014 9:47 pm

Thanks. It says which psg at the bottom of my messages. Anyway, all works well since adjusting the height of the A pedal.

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Left foot movement from AB to only A pedal: How?

Left foot movement from AB to only A pedal: How?

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Left foot movement from AB to only A pedal