Sho Bud Maverick - worth it?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Sep 2014 4:05 am

Killer Sho Bud tone..is a great statement... Most of us are of the mindset that the term " Killer Sho Bud Tone" , first off doesn't come from a Maverick...it comes from a Steel that is capable of producing the tone from a set of hands and bar technique that will draw it out...it doesn't just happen..for some of us, regardless of Instrument, it never happens...

2nd..Not all Sho Buds have that Killer tone...good clean tone , sure, but not that killer tone...

3rd..define killer tone...many of us use the Charlie Pride at Panther Hall LP as a reference, Loyd Green was on his Sho Bud thru a stock Fender Twin with 2x JBL 12's...

4th where does the so called "Killer tone" come from, Instrument wise...it comes from the manufacture, which pull system, components, body, changer, keyhead, roller bridge etc...thats not a Maverick...

it is said in some circles the best sounding Sho Buds are the two hole puller systems with the barrels behind them and then the rack and barrel systems follow. Those are not Mavericks.

My first PRO III was the two hole puller system, no barrels, with the single coils..it was good, even thru a TWIN with a 15" JBL it was not Loyd Green tone , but it was good...

Somehow we have allowed this thread to continue under a premise that a Maverick has tone to die for..it's just a student Steel with a very sloppy pull system. It works, it plays, it sounds ok, even good..lets leave it at that.

What does a Stage One sound like ? It sounds like a good Steel with nice even tone...

fact of the matter is if the player, student etc does not acquire good right and left hand technique and has a CxxP amp it really doesn't much matter what Steel they own or play...

My take , move past the tone, move past the Sho Bud tone to die for thing, unless you are getting a Steel with a two hole pullers with barrels or a rack and barrel system , be done with it.

The first year there will be no tone to the bone anyway, it will be screeching and erratic volume pedal technique. IF you have family, they may move out...your pets will disown you...

Get a Steel that fits your budget that you can grow into, whether it be a Maverick 3+0, 3+1 or a Stage one 3+4 etc... I feel that most here are saying 3+4 because it allows you to grow into the Steel not past it...

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 4:19 am

Hey Tony,
Thanks for the advice. Yeah at this point I think I have ruled out the Maverick.

The decision now is between the Sho Bud Crossover and the Stage One. I assume the Crossover will have some of that "killer tone" being a rack and barrel, more "professional" guitar?

The factors I'm considering for now are:

1) How much will i use the C6 neck?
2) How smooth is the operation of the levers and pedals on the Crossover? I don't want something that is very hard to activate the levers/pedals.
3) Will it stay in tune?
4) How often will it need tinkering with, and is there a chance I wouldn't be able to fix it myself or with some help from here?

Those are the major factors. I think the Stage One wins on all counts unless I really plan on using the C6.

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 4:25 am

And I hope my family doesn't move out, lol! Reminds me of being in 5th grade when I learned to play the trumpet. WOW I must have been very annoying to my parents and neighbors! May need to soundproof the basement room, lol. I will probably also do a fair amount of practicing with no amp, trying to get myself to strike the strings loud enough. I don't have a lot of experience with finger picks. I've played classical finger-style guitar with no picks. I tried the banjo with picks and the picks were just getting in the way of each other all the time...it was very awkward.

Thanks again, all. I think either instrument I end up with is a quality instrument. The Stage One is the safer choice. The Sho Bud is the bigger gamble but possibly bigger payoff in the long run, for the same price.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 13 Sep 2014 4:39 am

If it were me... I would put the Thorens and the Apogees on Audiogon. The price that you were offered for the Thorens seems very low as I've seen these sell in the $4-500. Range. You potentially could take enough out for a used pro guitar.

I believe that learning steel is enough of a challenge that doesn't need to be complicated by having to deal with learning how the thing operates. Good look with whatever you decide.

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 4:48 am

Hey, finally a "stereo guy" on here, haha! I thought about that but really don't want to ship them. And both are not in perfect cosmetic condition, so I don't think they're worth as much. Honestly I'd be making the money selling the Thorens at even $151 dollars, if you catch my drift...I got it cheap. I really don't want to sell the Apogees at all, although they are in a little bit rough shape...they might be worth fixing up, as they sound GREAT as-is. If I can get $225 for the Thorens, that already puts me at around $700 towards a good steel.

If I get the Stage One, it won't ship until January so I'll have time to save the rest.

If I get the Sho bud, the rest will have to go on a credit card for now.

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 5:19 am

And I'm trying to remember that I really can't go wrong here (I don't think). Either one of these guitars that I buy, I should be able to sell them for about what I paid for them (within a few hundred $$). So if it doesn't work out, I shouldn't be out much. Correct me if I'm wrong there! Do you see either guitar being easier or harder to sell than the other (Sho Bud Crossover vs. Stage One)? Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on giving up on the guitar before I've started...just another something to consider before buying.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 13 Sep 2014 6:37 am

Dan Dunne wrote: How often does one play C6 vs. E9? Maybe I'm putting too much importance on having 2 necks.

And also tone...is the Sho Bud tone going to be all that different from the Stage One tone? I keep hearing about the killer Sho Bud tone, but I wonder how different it will be.

Trying to keep in mind that playability should be the focus. Buying a regular guitar wasn't quite this complicated!

Most all of what you hear will be E9th, as it's by far the most popular tuning. You're right in thinking about playability and reliability; tone is something you can worry about after you learn to play, not before. Practically anything out there has "acceptable tone". Just look at what's being played, and what has been played in the past, and you'll find many different brands played by many different players.

Find a player willing to help you, as it's very hard to learn from just a book or a video. (Don't zero in on any one player or method.) Get out and see other players. Talk to them, and see how many different things work for many different players.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Sep 2014 6:48 am

Dan, don't worry, your family won't run away..they may go to the store for an hour or so but I suspect they will return ! I can't speak for the pets !

The Crossover is a fine Instrument, the Stage One is a fine Instrument. either or both will serve you well. regarding C6th, it's a different world, related in theory but not in style. A wonderful tuning should you grow into it. I'll go out on the big limb here..most of us., or perhaps a majority of us spend most of our time studying the E9th and become hopefully better players, to the end that we can play with others, in a jam, in a band..whatever. We can get by , obviously some better than others but we can find our place. On the lower ten I dare say that many of us , me included, are not near the proficiency on the lower ten as we are the upper ten which some would say.."I play E9th and carry around the C6th"

Either one of the mentioned will get you going for a long time...the benefit of grabbing a D10 early on is it allows you to dabble, it's there, you're there..why not jump in !

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 7:34 am

That's what I'm thinking...why not get the D10 for the price of the S10? As long as the D10 is going to be very "playable." I just asked about the condition of the knee levers and pedals...I've read that on some older guitars they don't move all that smoothly sometimes and I don't want to have to worry about needing to use excessive force to move them. Of course, I would think some lube would help.

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 13 Sep 2014 7:48 am

You asked if you need a seat and a volume pedal. No, a custom-made seat is not necessary. I've never had one; I use a drum throne, as many of us do. I even practise from an armchair at times, but that's another story.
Do you need a volume pedal? I don't think so. Learning how to use a volume pedal is a task in itself. Maybe it's best to learn to play first. A lot of the old time steelers didn't use a volume pedal. On the other hand, some of the techniques, such as sustaining the note as it dies out by increasing the volume, are only possible if you have a volume pedal.

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 13 Sep 2014 8:30 am

Dan, I'm reading between the lines here; I'm getting the impression that you believe your choice of steel guitar will be a major factor in your learning to play. If that's the case, forget it. If you are not prepared to make a serious commitment in time and effort, you will not reach a mediocre level at playing pedal steel. You will need to learn some awkward physical techniques, this takes time and repetition. And it won't sound much like music as you do it. Probably 9 out of 10 people that start to play pedal steel will just give up within a few weeks. It's not something you can do if you don't a real desire to do it. If you are not very serious, get the Maverick, it will be pretty easy to sell on Ebay. Otherwise, get the Stage One. By the time you actually learn to play a little, you will be able to make a decision about buying another guitar. Good luck.

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 8:46 am

Thanks Bill! You're not completely off base. I have been dabbling in guitar for 10 years and have never been a serious student at it. I'm an intermediate player, but I do enjoy playing. I have ALWAYS loved the pedal steel sound, so if it doesn't work out with the pedal steel, it won't be for lack of enthusiasm or interest.

I don't think the guitar choice SHOULD make a difference in the learning, other than if it stays in tune and plays well, but something about the Sho Bud just draws me in...it's a psychological thing. I've just always wanted one. It's like my Firebird entices me to drive it. I might not have the same itch to drive say, a Mini Cooper, or something like that...or even a 2010 Camaro. Great car, just doesn't have the same "mojo" for me. I hope that makes sense.

I know that's not what I should be focusing on, but if it entices me to play more, it's worth it, plus I'd get to dabble in C6. We'll see. The Sho Bud might be spoken for anyway. I think it'll all work out the way it's supposed to.

Mike DiAlesandro · Post by **Mike DiAlesandro** » 13 Sep 2014 9:06 am

Get The Sho~Bud Crossover before it is sold, you can play lightweight steel guitars when you are old like the rest of us!

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Sep 2014 10:59 am

Mike DiAlesandro wrote:Get The Sho~Bud Crossover before it is sold, you can play lightweight steel guitars when you are old like the rest of us!

best advise so far ! I've been watching that Instrument being for sale and almost pulled the trigger a couple of times...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 13 Sep 2014 12:48 pm

Obviously we all have differing opinions. Here's mine.

The Crossover is a gamble. It may be an utterly fantastic guitar, but as has been pointed out, it's 40 years old. Not only has the technology improved since then, but parts may be worn out, etc.

Is there any way you can try it out before you buy it?

With the Stage one, you know what you're getting, and if you buy it new, it will be under warrantee in case something ever goes wrong. (Although I've never heard of that happening.)

The Stage One will be more than enough to serve you for a couple of years. Then, after you've learned more, if you choose to upgrade to a more advanced instrument, possibly a U-12 or double neck, you'll be in a position to understand what the different options are out there, and make a more informed choice.

And, you should know, that if you really want that Sho-bud sound, Jackson guitars (which are made by Shot Jackson's family) are essentially the same guitars, with modern mechanics. A new Jackson is outside your present budget, but if you get the stage one, you can save up for one while you're learning.

Lee Dassow · Post by **Lee Dassow** » 13 Sep 2014 3:05 pm

Sounds like he wants to get a Sho-Bud. T.L.

Casey McKinnon · Post by **Casey McKinnon** » 13 Sep 2014 3:21 pm

Hey Dan,

A little over a year ago, I was in your shoes. I bought a 40+ year old Sho-Bud Professional, and haven't regretted a second of it. A great in-person teacher can fix most small mechanical issues (as has been the case for me).

Get whatever you think will call your name when you walk by it... "play me!" it should scream, and you should be so happy with what you've got that you just want to answer that call.

Also, on the tone thing... I concur with other posters. The first year is a slog, but after 12 months of consistent practise and great training, you'll be over that first hump and starting to sound like a steel player. I also can't emphasize how much time you should invest in learning to tune the steel properly... my teacher is really big on tuning, and it has been worth it for me. It has made a big difference for me personally.

Lastly, having a professional player play your guitar (whatever you decide on) will be really humbling and inspiring at the same time. You'll learn what's possible from your guitar and it will dispel any myth that your steel might be holding you back in your early years.

Casey

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 4:07 pm

Well the suspense has been killing me, and the wait is over.

As you can probably tell from the tone of my posts, I went with the Sho Bud Crossover.

Thanks so much to everyone for weighing in with their opinions. Even if I didn't go with YOUR particular advice, it doesn't mean I didn't consider it and appreciate it.

Ultimately, I chose with the guitar that would SCREAM at me "PLAY ME!" when I walked by it. I think that was the best choice for me, to get me to really play and practice as much as possible.

Hopefully any mechanical issues will be minimal, and I'll get to focus on playing for awhile. I'm sure I'll be back here for lots of advice!

This place is awesome. I've been a lurker for many years, since at least 2008 or so. I've been mostly hanging out during the times when I was looking to buy something...around 2 years ago and then recently.

I'll check back in once I receive the guitar. See you soon!

Dan

Dan Dunne · Post by **Dan Dunne** » 13 Sep 2014 4:07 pm

Well the suspense has been killing me, and the wait is over.

As you can probably tell from the tone of my posts, I went with the Sho Bud Crossover.

Thanks so much to everyone for weighing in with their opinions. Even if I didn't go with YOUR particular advice, it doesn't mean I didn't consider it and appreciate it.

Ultimately, I chose with the guitar that would SCREAM at me "PLAY ME!" when I walked by it. I think that was the best choice for me, to get me to really play and practice as much as possible.

Hopefully any mechanical issues will be minimal, and I'll get to focus on playing for awhile. I'm sure I'll be back here for lots of advice!

This place is awesome. I've been a lurker for many years, since at least 2008 or so. I've been mostly hanging out during the times when I was looking to buy something...around 2 years ago and then recently.

I'll check back in once I receive the guitar. See you soon!

Dan

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 Sep 2014 4:15 pm

Congratulations on getting the Bud. Just remember that there are several Bud experts here and 2 that are making replacement parts, should you ever need them.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 13 Sep 2014 5:04 pm

Congrats and welcome to ShoBud. I think as a beginner, I have learned a lot just by working on it. It really helps you understand a lot about how and why things work!!

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 13 Sep 2014 6:15 pm

Go get 'em Dan!

Most of all have fun!

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 13 Sep 2014 8:16 pm

PICTURES! WE WANT PICTURES.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Sep 2014 3:27 am

thank god you bought that Crossover, now I don't have to ponder buying it everyday !

Mike mentions some valid points to consider but still..not to worry. If you are any kind of a handy person these are not hard instruments to work on..or restore.. What looks like a mass of metal and rods and such is actually a pretty simple system by design...just multiplied by 20 !

Congrats..enjoy !

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 14 Sep 2014 7:39 am

If the change-over lever has been disconnected, reconnect it and get the full use of the Crossover.