C6 on a S12 3+4?

R. E. Klaus · Post by **R. E. Klaus** » 5 Feb 2004 9:00 pm

How would you set it up?

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 5 Feb 2004 10:09 pm

A 3+4 can work very well. Make your 3 floor pedals the 5,6,7 pedals of a typical C6 tuning. These are the most used pedals, sort of like the a,b,c pedals on an E9 tuning. Pedal 8 ("boo-wah") goes on a knee lever, say RKR. That leaves you with 3 knee levers. Put the standard 3rd string C->B on RKL. That leaves the LKL and LKR. On LKL, put the 4th string A->Bb, which has become almost as standard as the C->B. For your 4th knee lever, it's pretty discretionary. Some possibilities include putting the standard pedal 4 on a knee lever, raising the 3rd string C->C#, lower 4th string A->Ab, raise 6th string E->F, lower 5th string G->F, raise 7th string C->D, lower 6th string E->D. Any of them are useful, so it's best to experiment.

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Jeff's Jazz

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 6 Feb 2004 12:16 am

Great advice Jeff...except I think I'd like to keep the trad 8th pedal(boo wah) on a different knee from the high C to B change. I use those two together alot. [This message was edited by Rick Schmidt on 06 February 2004 at 12:21 AM.]

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 6 Feb 2004 1:51 am

Why not try something like this, to get the most use from each change?
– LKL P1 P2 P3 LKR RKL RKR
D – – – – – Eb– Eb – – – –
B – – – – – – – – – – – –
G – – – – – – – – – – – G#
E – – F – – – – – – – – –
C-D – – – – – – – – B – –
A-B – – –Bb – – – – – – –
G – – – – – – – – – – – F#
E – – Eb– – – – F – – – –
C – – – – – C#– – – – – –
A – – – –Bb – – – – – – –
F – – – – – E – – – – – F#
C – – – – – A – – – – – D
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“Big John” Bechtel
http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 06 February 2004 at 01:57 AM.]

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 6 Feb 2004 5:24 am

I think I'd put the whole tone changes on strings 5 & 6 on the floor. I have them on my MU-12 and I use that pedal on some fast things. I can use a floor pedal faster than a knee for some reason.....Have a good 'un..JH

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Livin' in the Past and the Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2004 11:59 am

Here's how I'd do it:
<pre>D-10 S-12
---- ----
P4 P1
P5 LKL
P6 P2
P7 P3
P8 LKR
C-B RKL
C-C# RKR </pre>As for the two extra strings, what I would do is not what I would recommend. I really like having a middle D string, but it's not a well accepted alteration. You're probably better off adding B and D as your first two strings, because that won't put you out of sync with the vast majority of C6th players.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
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Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 6 Feb 2004 3:16 pm

I like Jeff's idea and his reasoning......but
where are those pedals? The C6th pedals need to placed on the pedalboard more or less centered.....reachable by the right foot, at least pedal 3. most 3 & 4 steels are E9th w/the pedals located for the left foot only??
Most steels are predrilled so pedals can be moved......but it needs to be thought about
before you "jump from the frying pan into the fire."

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 6 Feb 2004 4:36 pm

pedal 1 = pedal 5

pedal 2 = pedal 6

pedal 3 = Pedal 7

LKL = pedal 8

LKR raise 4 (and possibly

a half a tone

RKL lower 3 to B

RKR raise 3 and 7 to C#

carl

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Feb 2004 5:51 pm

So, you'd abandon the standard P4 changes, Carl? I'm surprised!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 6 Feb 2004 8:11 pm

NOT by choice b0b

I love pedal 4. However being limited to 3 X 4, I love all I gave better. If one more pedal was available, it WOULD be pedal 4 in my case.

carl

R. E. Klaus · Post by **R. E. Klaus** » 7 Feb 2004 10:09 pm

What if a left vertical knee lever was added?
Thanks for all the input.
R. E.
[This message was edited by R. E. Klaus on 07 February 2004 at 10:10 PM.]

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 8 Feb 2004 9:44 am

If a LKV was added, I would do the following:

1. Do as in my earlier post

2. LKV = Pedal 4

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 9 Feb 2004 4:54 am

After thinkin how I use the pedals/levers in combination, this is how I would place pedals/levers on a S12 3+5.

<pre>
tune LKL LKV LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
F
D
G F#
E F
C C# B D
A B Ab Bb
G F#
E Eb
C C# C#
A Ab Bb
F E F#
C A D
</pre>

I might not need the 2 high strings tuned D & F which is tuned so one can play C D E F G on strings 5 thru 1 but you said it was 12 strings so........

Bengt Erlandsen
[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 09 February 2004 at 04:55 AM.]

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 9 Feb 2004 7:48 pm

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My Website..... www.cmedic.net/~almarcus/

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 9 Feb 2004 9:05 pm

<pre> LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
1 D
2 G
3 E +F
4 C +D -B +C#
5 A +B +B
6 G -F#
7 E -Eb
8 C +C# +C#
9 A +B
10 F +F# -E
11 C +D
12 A </pre>

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<img align=left src="http://picturehost.net/b0b/ManzBob2.jpg" border="0"> Bobby Lee
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System Administrator

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 9 Feb 2004 9:22 pm

By using knee levers for standard pedal changes, you can get most of the common two-footed combinations without having to use your right foot. The downside is that you have no way to add the typical A string levers.

I left out the low C to A on LKR because I added a low A string. You might want it anyway.

As for a vertical lever, I'd lower the high E to Eb and raise the middle E to F.

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<img align=left src="http://picturehost.net/b0b/ManzBob2.jpg" border="0"> Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com 
System Administrator

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 9 Feb 2004 9:51 pm

b0b, I like your G->F# on the knee lever, because that lever gets combined with so many other pedals.
I would pull the high G down to F# too. But that might make the lever too stiff or long.

I think your RKR may be wasted because your LKR can do that; i.e. raise your C (4th string) to C# as well. If you want C natural for the A7+9 chord, you can lower it back to C natural with RKL.

Then you can use RKR for 5th string A up to B flat and B. This would free up P1 and half of P3 etc etc

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 9 Feb 2004 10:02 pm

alternatively:
<pre>
LKL LKR P1 P2 P3 RKL RKR
1 G -F#
2 E -Eb +F
3 D -C#
4 C -B
5 A +Bb,++B
6 G --F -F#
7 E +F -Eb
8 D
9 C +C#
10 A
11 F -F# -E
12 C ++D ---A
</pre>
[This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 09 February 2004 at 10:03 PM.]

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Feb 2004 10:39 am

I have come at this from another direction and have put a universal tuning on an S12 3&4. One of my main axes is a Zum universal on which I play country, rock, blues, jazz and classical. The other one is an Emmons p/p S12 3&4 that I use for raunchy rockabilly and country. Some day I'll send it to someone to get some more B6 pedals added. But in the meantime it is serving its purpose well with classic honky-tonk tone.

The E lower lever (RKL) allows me to play lap style C6, which goes well with the rockabilly (that lever also raises the 5th string to C#, which is like having a D on the 2rd string of C6). LKR lowers the middle E to D for the 7th in E9 mode. In B6 mode it is like the usual 6 pedal of C6, except that the F on top is split over to the E lower lever (you release the lever if you want the F). A classic rockabilly lick is to do an upward roll on the tonic 6th chord, say E, G, A, C in the key of C (strings 9, 8, 7, 6 on uni; or 7, 6, 5, 4 on C6) followed by Eb, G, A, C, which I guess is a minor 6th chord? There are tons of early rock'n'roll licks in this setup, and of course all the country E9 stuff is there too.

RKR gives me the usual D on the 2nd string for E9, and the equivalent of an Eb up there on C6. This also gives me a Bb on string 9 in E9 mode, equivalent to a B on string 7 on C6). Eventually I will add a LKV that raises The F#s to G to give an A7 chord with the A&B pedals down.

So this gives me about 2/3s of what I am use to on a uni. It sacrifices a lot of C6 stuff, so is going in the opposite direction from what R.E.K. is trying to do here. But I just thought I would throw it out as another interesting thing you can do with an S12 3&4.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 10 Feb 2004 3:02 pm

Earnest wrote:

I think your RKR may be wasted because your LKR can do that; i.e. raise your C (4th string) to C# as well. If you want C natural for the A7+9 chord, you can lower it back to C natural with RKL.

I was thinking more of what the high C to B (RKL) does when P8 (LKR here) is in play. It makes an A9, which I think is very useful. If you rely on RKL to bring your C# back down to C, you no longer have the B note.

I never use the A7+9, but I use the A9 all the time.[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 10 February 2004 at 03:03 PM.]

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 10 Feb 2004 4:50 pm

I never use the A7+9, but I use the A9 all the time.

I like the B note too. That's why I have the B available on the A string (RKR) as well as by lowering the C string. But I never play C6 so this is all B.S.[This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 10 February 2004 at 04:54 PM.]

R. E. Klaus · Post by **R. E. Klaus** » 10 Feb 2004 8:33 pm

Thanks guys. I appreciate the time you took to think about this and give your ideas.
Thanks
R.E.