A tunning Question

Steven Black · Post by **Steven Black** » 24 Dec 2003 5:58 am

When tunning a steel guitar I noticed that a lot of players don't tune their guitars into
exact 440 pitch for each string, what pitch does each string get tuned to if you have a Double 10 Emmons setup? steveb carter D10 8+5.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 24 Dec 2003 7:13 am

Wow Steven,

There have been volumenous threads on this subject. And the answers run from ultra simple to very complex.

I suggest you do a search on this forum and read several or all of them (IF you have the time

).

There are 3 basic ways a player tunes his steel:

1. Straight up 440 on all strings and changes. this is called ET (Equal Temperament)

2. Straight JI (Just Intonation). Or tuning so there are NO harmonic beats between any two notes. This is NOT possible with every combination. So they tune as many as they can for no beats. This leaves a number of strings and changes flat of the reference note which is usually 440. But not always. Some reference to a higher note such as 442.5 (to reduce cabinet drop affects).

3. Meantone tuning where certain notes are tuned somewhere between ET and JI. This is done primarily to reach a balance as best as one can.

There have been volumes written on it. And it is very subjective.

Good luck and may Jesus bless you in your quests,

carl

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 24 Dec 2003 7:14 am

Some players tune pretty much "straight up" meaning 440 while others tend to tune only the A notes to 440 and the other strings are tuned "beatless" to the A- meaning that the strings are tuned to the A and/or each other (in various fashions)getting the beats out that are heard when two strings are plucked/struck together. The have been voluminous threads on the various ways to go about this on the forum- perhaps search using "Just Intonation" or "Temper Tuning" would help you wade through them. (Carl and I must have been typing together).[This message was edited by Jim Palenscar on 24 December 2003 at 07:15 AM.]

FRANK MARIANO · Post by **FRANK MARIANO** » 24 Dec 2003 7:25 am

Every string is tuned differntly . The Tonic notes E should be tuned at 442.5 and all other notes tuned arround it. Lloyd Green first discoverd years ago that if you tune a little sharp your bar will be in perfect intonation on the frets up the neck. I have a tuning chart that I will locate and send to you. I sent it to Terry Srader a couple of weeks ago. He is new to our craft and the best advise one can give a new player is to learn how to tune it right from the beginning. What ever you do DO NOT tune every string to 440 it will not be in tune. Keep picking I'm a "ZUMbody" Frank

Pee Wee Rogers · Post by **Pee Wee Rogers** » 24 Dec 2003 7:42 am

In refrence to the question on tuning...

Any comments on the V-SAM tuner by Peterson with presets for steel?

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 24 Dec 2003 7:52 am

Steven - Our brother Carl gave you a very good, concise answer to a question and topic that has been discussed and cussed many times on this Forum. You can search the Forum and read volumes. As Carl mentioned, tuning is very subjective. Everybody has an opinion on how our guitars should be tuned. I think the only thing we can agree on is to disagree. Frank said, "What ever you do, DO NOT tune every string to 440. It will not be in tune". Keep in mind that that is Frank's opinion, not fact. Many, many pickers tune "straight up" (ET), including some of the "big boys". JI sounds much better when you are playing alone, but there are times when it may not sound as good when playing with other instruments. Often times ET will sound better on the bandstand than JI.

Do the search and read. Then figure out which works best for you and your guitar.

------------------
Lee, from South Texas
Down On The Rio Grande

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 24 Dec 2003 9:19 am

The quick answer:
Jeff Newman's tuning charts

David Friedlander · Post by **David Friedlander** » 24 Dec 2003 12:48 pm

After having tuned straight up to 440, and recently started using Jeff's temepered tuning- I can vouch for the fact that the tempered tuning sounds more in tune when I'm playing with a band.

JMHO

db · Post by db » 8 Feb 2004 6:46 am

KORG just came out with an ORCHESTAL Tuner,
OT-12 that has 9 differect tuning temperments;
Pythagorean, WerckmeisterIII, Vallotti, KimbergerIII, Keller, Young, Mean-Tone Eb, Mean-Tone D# and 12 equal tempered. These temperings can also be referenced to any starting key.
It would be wonderful if one of these temperments came close to a useable "Pedal-Steel" compensation temperment.
Check out charts @ http://www.music.indiana.edu/som/piano_repair/temperaments/
It's a little confusing in that they use a compensation system where an octave equals 1200 cents.
Where most "Pedal-Steel" charts use a reference plus or minus 440.

------------------
Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E&A[This message was edited by db on 08 February 2004 at 07:04 AM.]

Dave Van Allen · Post by **Dave Van Allen** » 8 Feb 2004 9:19 am

Hey Dan ! Where ya been?

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Feb 2004 9:25 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>It's a little confusing in that they use a compensation system where an octave equals 1200 cents.
Where most "Pedal-Steel" charts use a reference plus or minus 440.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's historical. When electronic tuners first came out, their designers assumed that everyone would want to tune to equal temperament, and that the only issue was the frequency of the reference pitch (A). So the tuners were calibrated with 438, 439, 440, 441 etc. on the dial.

It's actually wrong to say "I tune my E's to 440." The equally tempered E note is 329.6 Hz. Nobody cares about that though - the math is too complicated. What we really care about is the offset from the ET note. Those offsets are measured in cents. ET is 100 cents per semitone, so 0 on the meter means that your E is exactly 700 cents above (or 500 cents below) your A reference.

The convenience of thinking in cents becomes obvious when you start tuning intervals. We know that a major third interval sounds best when it is about 14 cents flat of an ET third. The zero point on the meter is the ET note, relative to the A=400 reference pitch. So, if we tune our E to +5 cents on the meter, we should tune our G# to -9 cents. <pre> 5 - 14 = -9 </pre>You can actually work out all of your pitches in cents this way, and your ears will confirm what the arithmetic tells you. You can't do that if you're stuck thinking that E=441, G#=438, etc..

The Hz number system keeps steel players from understanding how temperament really works. This stuff isn't rocket science, folks, but you do need to be speaking the right language if you want to understand it.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 08 February 2004 at 09:32 AM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Feb 2004 11:15 am

Any comments on the V-SAM tuner by Peterson with presets for steel?

Yeah...

what steel?

Do the folks at Peterson (or anyone else, for that matter) think all steels are the same, or should be tuned the same, regardless of string length, string guages, basic tunings, pedal pulls, cabinet and axle anomalies, bar pressure, etc.?

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 8 Feb 2004 12:36 pm

They thought of that. You can set it to your own needs, and save the settings. Very handy!