The limitations of tab, my two cents

[Niels Andrews]

Well written charts express more than tab. Get Chas Williams book and you will see what I mean, also the whole band (except 6 string guitar players) can follow it.

[Stuart Legg]

We are comparing apples to oranges. Tab is designed for one person to look at and get some idea from chord to chord or note for note where it is found on the neck then resell it or throw it away, not to put on a music stand and play by.
Nashville Numbers are designed to look at and play the chord positions you might have learned from your tab.

[Niels Andrews]

Hey Lane,
You might hit upon some great new notation fo NNS! I like it, you are free to write what you wish! this is another great thread that will never meet resolution like a 47.

[Bo Legg]

They are great players and wonderful people all but the Icons of Steel Guitar come on here and call tab “painting by numbers” but the irony is they sell you a ton of it because they haven’t came up with anything better.

Jimmie Crawford did. His Musim-tab system is IMHO the best tab system ever invented. It's really a shame it never caught on.

Mike Stuart didn't say you couldn't improve on tab.
Some tab can be better than others but tab can't be better than tab.

[Alex Cattaneo]

Well said Stuart. The function of tab is not to teach theory or to be read on the bandstand. NNS is very useful, and I use it quite a bit (just didn't know the abbreviation, thanks Niels), but NNS and tabs have totally different uses. Tab is meant to demonstrate "where" on the neck the notes should be played, because strings instruments, as opposed to saxophones or pianos, offer several different options for playing the same notes or group of notes. Try writing down Brad Paisley guitar licks with standard notation and see where that gets you. Standard notation tells you what and when, but tabs tell you where, and sometimes it's really helpful to know where a note is played.

Tabs are NOT a way to get your music theory knowledge together, and I'm surprised anyone would expect a notation system to teach them about music. It would be like thinking the alphabet could teach you philosophy or something.

As I said, the tabs are a map. You can't learn to drive by looking at a map, but you can use it to show someone, or remind yourself, how to get from A to B.

[Lane Gray]

We are comparing apples to oranges. Tab is designed for one person to look at and get some idea from chord to chord or note for note where it is found on the neck then resell it or throw it away, not to put on a music stand and play by.
Nashville Numbers are designed to look at and play the chord positions you might have learned from your tab.

Tab is to SN like NNS is to the continuo of the baroque era. Tab and SN show you the exact lines, and continuo and NNS give you the framework to build your own song.

[Stuart Legg]

Fake books and NNS. I thought we were talking about the soul that none of these things have.
I think spreadsheets are one of the best tools for learning .

Bo and I have used this little spreadsheet Calculator for phrases, chords and scales for years.
But like fake books and NNS it assumes a person already has a good grasp of chord and scale numbers, what their pedals and levers do and you have a little soul.

We only use tab to communicate when it looks to commplicated on a spreedsheet.

[Bo Legg]

Stuart you just dumped on your tab.

The reason you like tab is because you collect it like some folks collect bugs. Some of us don’t like bugs.

If I wanted to know how a steel player plays and I could never play then tab would be perfect for that.

[Herb Steiner]

They are great players and wonderful people all but the Icons of Steel Guitar come on here and call tab “painting by numbers” but the irony is they sell you a ton of it because they haven’t came up with anything better.

Jimmie Crawford did. His Musim-tab system is IMHO the best tab system ever invented. It's really a shame it never caught on.

My version of tab is based in Crawford's system, but some folks still are married to "Pedal A, pedal B" etc. and are baffled by a symbol that actually teaches them something, i.e. what changes to the tuning the pedal activates.

Go figure.

[Lane Gray]

Stuart, that turns the steel into a keyboard. Knowing where to find the notes has never been MY problem: the key to making music lies in choosing which notes to play when.

[Lee Baucum]

...but Herb said it more concisely than I.

I've noticed that Herb has a knack for that!

[Tony Prior]

being one who has produced many TAB programs I will state an observation...

Tab is not intended to be musical notation, it is intended to jump start a player so that in a short while, they can play some music. or learn a phrase they have been chasing... The biggest issue for new players, any instrument, is the boredom of not playing any songs but perhaps just site reading 3 Blind Mice...then they quit. Tab gets new players into a song or a phrase quickly.

Now, what they do with that information going forward is a different subject. Tab should detail and define chord progressions and phrases, as well as where they lay on the fret board , it's a quick picture of where it is..if it is joined by a music track , even better.. Tab is a road map of the Instrument, a very good road map but the student should be paying attention to the map if they want to progress.

But if a student after study and playing the phrases etc doesn't connect the dots,doesn't recognize the road map, then even written notation would not bring that student forward. How many musicians have we each run across in our journey that could site read but NOT play a lick unless the notation was in front of them. I personally never understood that. To me they learned the music and where the notes are but never learned the Instrument...they never connected the dots.

We all know there are many levels of students and abilities, one instruction is not meant to cover all the ground. TAB is easy to understand and easy to execute, most importantly it gets a studying player PLAYING some music sooner rather than later, and that's the big picture.

Without TAB many players would probably lose interest and pack up the Steel and send it to a new home where someone else could learn and play 3 Blind Mice !

[Erv Niehaus]

There is tab and then there is tab. I've been told that the tabs that I produce are about as close to a music lesson as you can get. I write my tabs with the notation, chords and lyrics in addition to the tab. After a while, a player can see the correlation between the tab and the written music. Also, with the notation, you can get a feel of the proper timing. The lyrics are also important in how you phrase your playing.

[Dick Sexton]

Tab is a language. A simple language. For me, it has no other purpose then communication. It is not perfect even for that, because it is a simple language.

When you got that grill from Wally World, it came with tab. Pictorial tab. Illustrations, showing you where to put screw A into hole B. It was simple, even poor, because it didn't tell you to torque the screw to 2 inch pounds.

Steel guitar tab alone, does little to show you how to play anything. What it does pretty well is show you to put screw A into hole B.

It allows me to have what I think is an original idea, tab it and communicate that idea generally to someone else, through several avenues of transport. Sometimes thousands of miles away, to players known only to me through my computer. A tool, nothing more, nothing less. Just my opinion...

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Steel guitar tab alone, does little to show you how to play anything. What it does pretty well is show you to put screw A into hole B.

That's a very good analogy.

IMHO, that's what an absolute newbie needs. The steel is so physically daunting at first, that folks who re just starting be told to put screw A into hole B.

But once they start to feel comfortable mashing the pedals, they should have something that teaches them what the pedals do, which is what Jimmie Crawford's system does.

I think Erv has some good ideas too.

[Lane Gray]

Where can one find examples of the Crawford system?
It still seems likely to be limited, as you can't write feeling.

[Tom Gorr]

Lane, notation has phrasing 'rainbows' to assist with the macro phrasing...ultimately doomed as too limited as well..reasonably, the feel of the song is the players talent. Back when I used to be more heavily involved in classical music, I listened to the same symphonies and concerto's but played by different world class orchestras, and the feel was miles different between even the top dogs in that biz, with the conductor reading off the most sophisticated scores.

Interestingly, players who have a small bag of tricks, but have timing and feel down to a fine art are gauged as better musicians than those that have speed and technical chops down pat, but are otherwise stiff or rhythmically sloppy.

[Tony Prior]

TAB is not intended for everyone...those that don't like it or don't need it won't use it and may also frown on it... Those that DO need it and DO like it will use it and in many cases, learn from it. We should also consider that many players have no intention of going off to a gig and burning the night away, playing at home with a TAB and a track may very well be all the goal is. Thats not a bad thing...

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

Where can one find examples of the Crawford system?

It can be found in Winnie Winston's second book, "A Manual of Styles,"
http://www.julianwinston.com/music/the_ ... _style.php

Instead of designating the pedals as A, B, and C, Crawford's system showed what the pedals do. Instead of saying press the A pedal, it said press the pedal that raises the 5th string a whole step.

I don't know if the book is still available. It's not listed on Amazon.com

[Fraser Moffatt]

I think of tab as a kind of map (like the cartographic type).

Both tab and map (and charts, notation, for that matter) act as a kind of model of reality. A map can't capture every blade of grass in a park, but it can guide you to the park and it's up to the user to interpret the information on the map to suit their needs (e.g, best place for a picnic).

I think tab/notation/charts works the same way, the information contained within can guide you to a note or chord and in the case of notation, rhythm, but its up to you how to interpret that information and make it musical.

But then, I'm a geographer that plays music, so maybe this analogy only works for me....

[Lane Gray]

Tony, when I had no net at home, tab is how I'd take licks from Mickey Adams or Bobbe Seymour videos to my gigs.
I'd take headphones to the library, watch the same video over and over and over til I thought I could remember the lick. Then I'd tab out the lick as a memory aid, drive to the gig, and play it.
Tom, I know what you mean. When I hear my playing, I notice my imperfections (I have approximately the 13,759th cleanest right hand, and my intonation fails occasionally). My friends include standout musicians, who say that I play with style and soul that outweighs my screwups. It seems to work for me.

[Tom Gorr]

Hi Lane, my comments were from personal experience, lol, not directed toward you at all, except for the general thought. We all have our strengths and weaknesses...let's just say i've recently discovered the metronome..haha

[Lane Gray]

Hell, I'm not worried, I would rather play like me. And people LIKE what and how I play.
I'd rather hear B.B. King than Al DiMeola.

[Tom Gorr]

Yep, i'm more inclined to jimmy page than Joe satriani

[Erv Niehaus]

Steel players seem to be a dying breed. If we can attract more players to taking up the instrument via tab, I'm all for it. As mentioned above, most players who take up the instrument are "bedroom" players, they play it for their own satisfaction. And there is a lot of satisfaction in putting up a well arranged piece of tab and playing a song that you can actually recognize. Throw in some BIAB and you're in hog heaven!