Dual Showman Feels Underpowered

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 27 Apr 2014 3:18 pm

I've got a drip edge dual showman that I took out to a gig for the first time last night, with an Eminence EPS-15C. I absolutely loved the tone, but the amp felt underpowered. I had the volume on ten, bass and treble and about 7, and it was only just keeping up with our drummer, who is not a loud drummer!

Interestingly even though it was flat out on the volume, there was no break up at all. It has brand new matched winged C power tubes. I'm wondering if maybe the input stage is under powered. Any ideas? Thanks!

Ron Whitworth · Post by **Ron Whitworth** » 27 Apr 2014 5:26 pm

Hello Benjamin;
Here is a suggestion I would call step 1 in your troubleshooting.

Run a cable from the steel straight into the input on the amp & see if the volume is the same as you had last night.

Put the controls just as you had them last night but no other pedals in line.

Let us know what that does.

My Best to you.
Ron

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 27 Apr 2014 5:53 pm

I have had two problems in my life like this...Each time - I moved a perfectly working amp to a gig and:

1) shaking around during transport must have weakened something inside a PREAMP TUBE and it got very very weak to the point where my volume level was too low to hear in the mix. Solution...replace each preamp tube one by one until volume is restored.

2) shaking around during transport must have weakened something inside a POWER TUBE and the volume got very weak to a point where my volume level was too low to hear in the mix...one power tube fried, but it also took out a screen resistor and while I could have replaced it myself, there's deadly voltages inside a tube amp, and I don't know the protocols - so I paid a tech the minimum bench fee to do it for me...took him 10 minutes max.

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 27 Apr 2014 6:17 pm

Thanks for the replies fellas. I'm going to sit down and do some trouble shooting.

Steven Husting · Post by **Steven Husting** » 27 Apr 2014 11:13 pm

1) Stupid question - you are sure you plugged the speaker into the speaker jack, and not the extension speaker jack? It makes a difference.

2) when was the last time the filter caps were changed?

Steven

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 28 Apr 2014 5:06 am

The easy stuff first----what preamp tubes are in it- ?

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 28 Apr 2014 8:29 am

To expand in what Steve said. You might have a replacement output tranny in it that is set to an 8-ohm speaker load. The EPS is 4-ohm. That could do some of it, maybe.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Apr 2014 10:05 am

I was having this problem when I played a particular stage. I would go home and pull apart everything after every gig there. It turned out there is power issues at the club. Dirty power can be a real problem.

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 28 Apr 2014 10:43 am

next time bring one of these inexpensive devices

not a terrible thing to keep in your steel seat if you use tube amplifiers. It will not tell you if there is low voltage or not, but it will let you know that the neutral is in the right place.

there are some venues in SF that have bad power - which usually manifests as noise, but never had it lower the output of the amp. Old Fender amps generally have a few things wrong with them but still work 99% of the time. That is part of what makes them amazing, but also part of what makes folks leave them at home or in studios and take something reliable to the gig. A loose or intermittent connection can cause a seemingly low output and yet the amp seems to be working perfectly.

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 28 Apr 2014 12:00 pm

What is that device called, Tim?

Tim Marcus · Post by **Tim Marcus** » 28 Apr 2014 12:32 pm

its just a receptacle tester. Here is one on amazon but you can get them at any small hardware store:

http://www.amazon.com/Extech-ET15-Recep ... ult+tester

Glenn Uhler · Post by **Glenn Uhler** » 28 Apr 2014 12:33 pm

Outlet Power and Polarity tester tests AC power connection, neutral connection, ground connection, and power-neutral polarity.

If I missed something Tim, chime in!

Daniel Morris · Post by **Daniel Morris** » 28 Apr 2014 12:43 pm

Thanks, gents.

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 29 Apr 2014 8:23 am

When you solve the puzzle, please post about it. We'd all love to learn what it was.

Michael Brebes · Post by **Michael Brebes** » 29 Apr 2014 8:35 am

The "no breakup with volume at max" is a dead giveaway that there is something wrong. A pedal steel should be able to push it into clipping at that gain setting.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 29 Apr 2014 9:16 am

Michael Brebes wrote:The "no breakup with volume at max" is a dead giveaway that there is something wrong. A pedal steel should be able to push it into clipping at that gain setting.

Yeah...suggests a very weak first stage gain preamp tube. (amongst about 10 other things..!)

Tom Wolverton · Post by **Tom Wolverton** » 29 Apr 2014 10:24 am

Does it do it on both channels?

Jerry Jones · Post by **Jerry Jones** » 29 Apr 2014 10:47 am

Had a similar problem with one of my older amps….. turned out the tube socket contacts needed cleaning and re-tensioning. Hope yours is an easy fix too.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 29 Apr 2014 10:58 am

The pictured outlet tester will tell you if the wiring itself is correct but nothing about the electrical supply itself. It will not tell you if the voltage is too low or too high, or if there are stray artifacts or fluctuations in the line voltage.

Excessively high or low line voltage will definitely mess up the performance of a transformer-powered amp, and has the potential to do real damage. If you suspect bad power use a meter to check for proper AC voltage between the parallel slots in the outlet, you want to see at least 110VAC and not more than 120VAC.

The big question is whether or not the amp behaves the same wherever it is used or only when being used in this particular venue. It is impossible to pin down the problem without knowing the answer to this question.

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 29 Apr 2014 1:21 pm

Again----what preamp tubes are in it?

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 29 Apr 2014 6:51 pm

Ok, so after messing around swapping tubes in and out, I came to the realization that i should try a different guitar, and viola, bone shaking volume! So it seems my guitar has a low output. I'm terribly embarrassed!

But thanks everyone for your input.

I do notice though that the tremolo channel is quieter than the normal channel...

Jerry, there were no name preamp tubes in there. I swapped the one on the normal channel out for a Mullard I had lying around. No difference in volume, but a thicker tone to my ears.

Tom Gorr · Post by **Tom Gorr** » 29 Apr 2014 6:57 pm

So now we need to figure out why your guitar has such low volume....that's not 'usual', really...unless you have a bad contact in your pickup selector switch or a cold solder joint, but those aren't things that change between house and stage....

Put a ohm-meter across your guitar output jack to see its DC resistance....and switch the switch to different positions...That's where I would start.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Dual Showman Feels Underpowered

Dual Showman Feels Underpowered

Outlet Power and Polarity Tester