Did Floyd Cramer invent....

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 3 Nov 2003 1:25 pm

Bud Isaacs set the steel guitar world on fire when he recorded the kick off, turn around and ending to Webb Pierce's, "Slowly".

That fact is well known and as far as I know 100% true. However for years, every once in a while a story surfaces that Floyd Cramer invented the "bent note" or as some call it the "slip note" style of playing the piano.

I have even heard it said on radio and TV programs, that Floyed cramer invented his classic sound.

Maybe and maybe not. And I am not saying he did or he didn't. But IMO, and in my ears I will always believe he simply copied the moving tone sound (as best it could be done on piano) that Bud Isaacs created on that recording. Since this was "THE" sound that was turning everybody on in the country music world.

What say ye?

carl

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 3 Nov 2003 1:28 pm

I was just talking to a piano player about this. In Chet Atkins' biography, Chet says that Floyd copied the slip note style from a demo that Chet had, the piano player's name on that demo eludes me though....Jerry

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Nov 2003 1:30 pm

He copied it from Chopin's study in E major, Opus 25, number 5.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 3 Nov 2003 2:20 pm

The other piano pounder was Don Robertson. It was he who probably ripped off Chopin.

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Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 3 Nov 2003 4:46 pm

...the demo that Chet suggested that Floyd copy was"Please Help Me I'm Falling"...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 3 Nov 2003 4:59 pm

I read somewhere that Floyd said he used the technique "to mimic the sound of a pedal steel", and sure enough...his playing replaced the pedal steel in many recordings.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 3 Nov 2003 5:28 pm

On any tuning where you have intervals
ie for example : high to low E-C#-B-A
You can duplicate the Cramer sound on your steel.
Play the A note with your thumb. Follow
with B-C#-E respectively using thumb
index middle in that order.
Mute the slipped note "B" by dropping the thumb back down on it. (pick block) Let the other notes sustain.
You can play Last Date this way and it will sound like a keyboard.
Note the example I used incorporates the B to C# change which is where the similiarity to the steel sound occurs.
That's my take on it.

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Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 3 Nov 2003 6:04 pm

I play "Last Date" as a steel instrumental. I guess I'm just getting even...

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Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Nov 2003 6:31 pm

Did Joe Zawinul rip off "Mercy Mercy Mercy" from "Last Date"?

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 3 Nov 2003 9:22 pm

There's quite a story behind the bent note style but Don Robertson is the inovator having written "Please Help Me". I remember when Robertson made an LP that introduced the style. Chet had Cramer learn it for a session and he got the credit for it. Chet even admitted it in interviews over the years. Robertson is still alive and has a web site. http://www.nashvillesongwritersfoundation.com/fame/robertson.html

Steve Hinson · Post by **Steve Hinson** » 3 Nov 2003 9:59 pm

Wow!That guy has some BIG cuts!He came up with a cool piano style,too...

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 4 Nov 2003 7:57 am

I once quit a band because of the song "Last Date".
I will quit any band that wants to do "Last Date".
Now, "Last Kiss"... that's a different story.
I'll MURDER the guy who...

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 04 November 2003 at 07:58 AM.]

Mark Durante · Post by **Mark Durante** » 5 Nov 2003 4:12 am

I remember hearing somewhere that Floyd's style was his attempt to imitate the sound of his friend Jimmy Day. Anyone else heard that?

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 5 Nov 2003 4:21 am

Dave Brubeck's "Unsquare Dance" featured on the album "Time Further Out" A sequel to Time Out, exploring more odd time signatures. Recorded May and June 1961 Recorded May and June 1961 Recorded May and June 1961 Recorded May and June 1961 in NYC. used this trick-lick-phrase-gimick ? or howerever you wish to define it.

From The Don Robertson Bio :-
1959-1960--hit song "Please Help Me I'm Falling" launched new piano style (via Floyd Cramer) and led to an artist contract with RCA
Baz[This message was edited by basilh on 05 November 2003 at 04:37 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 5 Nov 2003 5:08 am

Mark; I always get a smile when I remember the story that FC got the sound after Shot Jackson put some pedals on his piano !!

Regards, Paul

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 5 Nov 2003 6:16 am

After seeing all the posts and pondering in my mind the chain of events that happened during the evolution of the PSG (as we know it today), I believe the following to be true:

No matter how many stories surface about Floyd, Chet, "Chopin's study in E major..", etc, I believe that Floyd Cramer did none of the above. I believe that the "then" PSG sound was becoming soooooo popular, he simply figured a way to duplicate it (as best he could) on the piano.

And what a job he did. He built an entire career around it. Plus he truly was an incredible player.

The timing, just in my mind, precludes any other rationale from being true. Since when he came out with it, the pedal sound was sweeping Country music everywhere one turned.

IF the PSG sound had NO bearing on Floyd doing what he did, then I believe it is the greatest coincidence ever been since the word coincidence was "coined".

I further believe that the stories emerged for the same reason that few steel guitar greats are ever recognized in the industry at large. IE, our intrument caries with it a steteotypical stigma that simply relegates it to the lowest of the low. And NO way were they going to ever let it be known "that sound" came from the steel guitar.

My opinions anyway,

carl[This message was edited by C Dixon on 05 November 2003 at 06:22 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 5 Nov 2003 9:28 am

Carl: I have told this story before but it may bear repeating here. When I was always bumping into Jimmy Day somewhere around the world, he once told me how he and Floyd left the LA Hayride and went to Nashville. They were working with Webb Pierce and after awhile, Webb came and told Jimmy he was letting Floyd go because he could only play on the white keys.

With that in mind, you are surely correct when you say he built a career out of it. I wonder how many hours a day he spent practicing.....

Regards, Paul

Gary Walker · Post by **Gary Walker** » 5 Nov 2003 10:17 am

It's true, when Chet had the demo of "Please Help Me," it was presented with Robertson both playing and singing the song. Chet let Floyd listen to it and told him to be ready to play it that way for the session the next day. He liked it so much, he made it his personal favorite way to play and it made him a millionaire and opened doors all over the world for him.