Newbie possibly buying a Sho-Bud (photos)

[Adam Nero]

Hi all,

I've been learning D-8 nonpedal and dobro for under a year. I steered clear of pedal steel since it's a famously difficult undertaking and I'm really bogged down with school, but I love steel guitars like none other.

So, when my local friend offered me first refusal on this instrument, I thought I'd show the forum the photos and solicit input.

1) First, what is this thing exactly?
2) Any noticeable concerns, just based on the photos?
3) What's a fair price? He's asking $1250.

Any and all input greatly appreciated. I really know nothing about these instruments but I'm eager to learn.

Thanks,
Adam

(When I look at in person this weekend, I'll bring a pedal steel friend I know who'll goof around on it and make sure it's mechanically sound.)

[Skip Edwards]

It's an early '70's model 6139, also known as a single neck Professional. Nice gtr, they have great tone, and when adjusted well, play very nice. Simple changer mechanism that's capable of almost unlimited pulls...even though that piece of tape says 1 raise/1 lower.
Good price...depending on whether or not it's trashed machanically...but it looks like it's in pretty good shape. Take those cheesy flags off the KL's.

[Adam Nero]

Take those cheesy flags off the KL's.

Haha, noted. Thanks for the input.

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

(My amateur assessment):
(oops! typing my comments while Skip's came in: pardon the repetition)

Adam, this is a c. 1970 model 6139 (later version was called the Pro I). These originally came with one knee lever. Two of the additional ones look stock, and may well have been included by special order when the guitar was built. The "flags" added to the knee lever are not stock and appear to be easily detachable if you don;t like them. A little hard to tell from this pic, but the fourth, the one that sticks up a little higher than everything else underneath, seems to be aftermarket parts. I would have your friend check that knee lever in particular. If it doesn't sit just right, it could cause all of the pull rods running past it to rub and possibly bind a little which could cause tuning headaches.

It has the rack and barrel pulling system that some love and some hate. It has some limitations in terms of adjusting the timing of all the pulls, but it also has incredible flexibility for changing what the pedals and knee levers do (although getting started, you probably won't need that flexibility for a while). I found the tuning on my rack and barrel Sho-Bud to be as stable as any other all-pull system, but it is a little quirky, a bit different from the standard. Again though, as a beginner with nothing to compare it against, it won't seem any quirkier to you than any other pulling system.

These round front Sho-Buds have a distinctive tone that many people love (myself included). Very good for playing more traditional country and honky tonk, which, I'll go out on a limb and guess, you might seem to prefer given your attraction to lap steel and dobro.

A little hard to tell from these pics, but it seems to be a tad tired cosmetically: flaking lacquer, dull aluminum that may or may not polish up nicely. Some like them better that way, but I would say that this brings the value down slightly. The asking price is probably at the top end of what it should go for, possibly selling for up to a few hundred less.

Hopefully some more expert voices will chime in.

[Adam Nero]

Hopefully some more expert voices will chime in.

I hope so, too. Thanks very much for yours!

[Dan Behringer]

Quote........“I steered clear of pedal steel since it's a famously difficult undertaking“

Keep in mind,
Learning to do the difficult things will offer the most rewards in life!

[Tom Wolverton]

One thing to check with a round front is the top-to-front apron joint. Right above the decal on the changer end of the front apron. These seams often crack and open up. A little crack in the finish is pretty common and seems to not be a structural problem. But if the crack is open, it can make for a non-solid cabinet. (Something James Morehead taught me.)

Also, it looks like the top apron is slightly concave just aft of the changer. You can see a gap between the trailing edge of the changer and the wooden top deck. Might be nothing. But I'd want that changer housing to seat nice and solid. The price seems ok, since you have all 4 KLs. (Assuming they all work well). If it was mine, I'd send it to Ricky Davis for an overhaul.

[John Billings]

Tom has given you some good advice about the body! I'd take a good straight-edge with me. Check the body carefully. Wiggle it around to see if it's flexing.
I am a bit suspicious, because the changer end wood and the endplate don't line up well. Warped? Look for signs of water damage too. Not that this era of Shobuds didn't have a lot of fitting anomalies! 8^) But the body looks like it kicks up to the rear. The poor condition of the lacquer makes it worth a bit less imo.

But they're very nice guitars. Sound good. Play well. And,,, maybe that endplate was crooked from the git-go. That certainly did happen!

[Skip Edwards]

This is what they're talking about...see how the top piece is starting to pull away from the front apron...you can see it just above and to the left of the logo.
Gotta say, though...it's never been a problem as far as tuning stability or sound quality. It's been that way for 30+ years. I bought this gtr new in '72.

[Adam Nero]

If it was mine, I'd send it to Ricky Davis for an overhaul.

Are you able to tell me how much that would set me back, or does it just depend?

[Adam Nero]

Thanks for the advice, everyone.

[chris ivey]

i wouldn't send it to anyone. clean it up, get advice on adjusting the pedals/levers, play it. pretty east to work on. keep your costs down to a minimum.

[Peter den Hartogh]

chris is right. If you work on it yourself, you will know exactly how this thing works and you can keep it in perfect playing condition almost forever.

Just try yo find out how "worn" the changer internally is. Sometimes you can see that the pedals are worn and that might be an indication. On the forum you will find a lot of useful information written by Ricky Davis.

One thing that has not been mentioned is that the mechanics can be a bit noisy. Ricky has provided some tips to minimize this, but it will not disappear completely. It is never a problem on stage or the studio, but at home it might be a bit irritating. Mind you, keyboards make some soft clunky noises at home and so do drum sets.

If you can get the guitar for $400 less, you "have" $400 to give to a specialist to work on it, if you don't want to tinker.

[Dana Blodgett]

I'm with Skip, remove those ugly flags,you wont need them,they look like they were installed backwards!? I think it's a very fair price,probably needs cleaning,fine tuning. I have one that looks to be the same vintage probably a '73 or '74.I love mine and I paid more for mine with only two knee levers.

[John Billings]

Don't believe it can be as late as '74. By late '73, I'm pretty sure they had switched to barrels behind two-hole pullers. I worry that the top has warped a bit, but that may not be an issue. The key head endplate shows the same rise towards the rear. And the curved gap under the rear of the changer housing could be from the top warping. Check the cabinet carefully. Make sure it's not loose/wiggly.
Really easy guitars to work on.

[John Billings]

Sometime in '74, they switched systems again, doing away with the barrels altogether. Here's a pic of my November '74 guitar.

[Jim Cooley]

I think John is right about the manufacturing date. My LDG is a late '73. It has barrels behind two-hole pullers and the coil tap switch is on the end plate.

If you haven't already, I suggest you check the way the legs screw into their sockets to make sure they are still tight.

If it was mine, I'd send it to Ricky Davis for an overhaul.

Are you able to tell me how much that would set me back, or does it just depend?

Tom's suggestion is a good one, and "it depends" is likely correct. I took mine to Ricky after I'd had it a little while. There wasn't anything wrong with it. I was just curious whether he could spot anything that I wasn't aware of and make improvements. It didn't need any major work, but he made several adjustments. I was really surprised with the results. His service and communications were great and it cost less than I expected. Ricky and I are both in Texas, though, so I didn't incur the same shipping charges as some. Every guitar is different, though. If you buy the guitar, I suggest contacting him through the forum. I can't speak for him, but he'll probably be wiling to look at some photos and give you some ideas. So much for my Ricky Davis promo. (You're welcome, bro). Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Those old Buds sound great. Good luck.

[Skip Edwards]

What's the serial number? I say '73...even though it's still r&b. You know how they were...they would just use up stuff till they ran out. Another reason I say '73 is because it's doesn't have the tone/volume/tap switch on the back shelf. They quit installing the pots in '73, and it has the tap switch on the end plate. My 6139 is late '72, and it's got the pots & switch on the back shelf.

Adam, let us know how it pans out.

[John Billings]

"it's doesn't have the tone/volume/tap switch on the back shelf."

Good catch Skip. I think you're probably right. As far as I know, they switched to two hole pullers mid '73. However, there were oddities! My '67 S-10 has no pots, and just the coil tap switch on the back deck. Wood wraparound changer though.

[Adam Nero]

I went to see the instrument this weekend and brought my friend Jeff along. Two knee levers were having trouble but the pedals worked fine. And I love the sound of the guitar, which I guess is the most important part! The lacquer flakes a bit on the front apron but everywhere else looks just beautiful, so far as I could tell.

Jeff referred me to a guy north of Saint Paul who builds his own instruments. Said he'd take a look. So I have a deal worked out where I'll take the guitar for $1150 and hope the repair doesn't run me too much.

Thanks for all your help everybody. Real excited to get to work learning this thing.

Adam

[Russell Nugent]

One of the best steel guitar techs there is lives close to you in Crystal - Clem Schmitz. Contact him at freedomsauce@comcast.net and let him get it up to speed.

[Tom Wolverton]

Take those cheesy flags off the KL's.

Haha, noted. Thanks for the input.

Yes remove the flags. For my legs, they would be backwards anyway. You can add them back on later if you feel you need a flag. I'd doubt if you'd ever need a flag on a single neck 'bud.

If I were you, I'd get it. Just my opinion and bias.

[Rob Hamilton]

From the photos, it looks as though the knee levers were ground flat to accommodate the flags. Too bad about that, but they should still work fine. I have a similar Sho-Bud and love it. Enjoy!

[Tom Wolverton]

James Morehead sells those teardrop levers with an angle adjustment set screw in the base. I've got a few of them on my D-10 and love having that adjustment feature.