My New Zumsteel

Jerry Fleming · Post by **Jerry Fleming** » 15 Oct 2003 5:58 pm

I guess I will chime with my 2 cents worth.

I had the pleasure of hearing Randy play his 67 Emmons not long ago in Wilson and I will have to say he got the best tone out of it I ever heard. Well, this past weekend I got to see and hear Randy play his new Zum. I was blown away! For the record I just got my first Push Pull Emmons and I love it! Everything that people say about Emmons push pull guitars is true. ( except the Black Formica theory) LOL They just have a great sound. That said, I think Bruce has found the magic and is on to something great! In my opinion Randy's new Zum has a killer sound every bit as sweet as the Emmons. I know the die hard Emmons guys will say "yea but it is not an Emmons" Who cares! it is a great sounding guitar that I would be proud to own! Randy always sounds good on anything he plays. The very first time I heard Randy play he was playing a Sierra at Jeff Newmans June jam during sound check and warming up. He made a lasting impression on me. Not only is he a great player he is a very nice guy.

Randy I know you are proud of your new Zum guitar and rightly so. I think it sounded awesome Sat. and you can make it sing!

All The Best to you and Judy,

Jerry

Bruce Hamilton · Post by **Bruce Hamilton** » 16 Oct 2003 5:19 am

Randy just so I got this straight - are there individual nylon tuners for each pull at the endplate or are there halftone tuners under the guitar? Ever since you began this thread I have been trying to visualize how this would work. Its sure got me baffled.
Thanks

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 16 Oct 2003 9:44 am

.....now who will be the first to make a new steel that sounds like a ZB?

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 16 Oct 2003 10:02 am

Bruce,
It had me scratching my head also. Even with a working model in my hand it took a little bit to figure it out. There are no half tone tuners under the guitar. Everything except the dominant raise tunes with nylon tuners at the endplate. The raise that pulls the farthest, you tune at the keyhead with the pedal down, and then tune the open tuning at the endplate with an allen screw.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 16 Oct 2003 10:04 am

.....now who will be the first to make a new steel that sounds like a ZB?

Or a pedalsteel that the tonal presence of an old Stringmaster or Ricky bakelite !

Bob [This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 16 October 2003 at 11:06 AM.]

Frank Estes · Post by **Frank Estes** » 16 Oct 2003 11:01 am

Maybe Bruce could name his new system the "Bruce Contact Technology!"

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Frank Estes - 1978 Emmons D-10 8+7 #2441D

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 16 Oct 2003 11:15 am

Damir, as a friendly discussion I would like to address some of your points and questions.

"Why not get an original Emmons p/p and have the real thing insted of copy that sounds 'almost' as original."

First is product and consumer support. I just went through the process of obtaining parts for an original p-p. Not an easy task. You have to have alot of the parts made, that can get expensive. The p-p hasn't been built for 20 years. I collected parts from North Carolina to Texas and several states in between. Second, Set-up changes. Everyone will agree that an all-pull guitar is easier to make changes on. Third, don't judge this guitar as being "almost" until you have played it.

"All that tuning nightmare and stiff pedals are the part of the charm of the old Emmons p/p and all that together gives the sound to guitar."

You may need to get your guitar checked out. My '67 plays as easy as an all-pull guitar, and it stays in tune.

"Everybody keeps their old push pulls because they are "THE" real thing and they will always be."

Exactly, they are a part of our history, a classic. Still, a soundpost by which most are measured.

"And why trying to copy Emmons tone?I love it don`t get me wrong,but I think that every guitar should have it`s destinctive and original tone itself and not trying to copy other guitars,wich is btw. hopeless ,they can come as close as they want but no other guitar will ever had better 'Emmons' tone than Emmons itself."

What is "Emmons" tone? Define it. Is it what Buddy got on the "Black" album? If that is so, Hal Rugg, John Hughey, Weldon Myrick, Sonny Garrish, Jimmy Crawford, and Doug Jernigan didn't get it while playing a push-pull. They all sounded unique. A great guitar lets you sound like who you are. It doesn't keep your sound in a "stereotyped box."

To me, what made the push-pull unique was the eveness in string volume from the 1st to the 10th string, how the tone and sustain didn't change when you played above the 12th fret. A general summation would be the way the guitar responded to whatever you did. What it makes you feel like when you play it. All these characteristics are what are desirable in any guitar, and is what everyone is trying to achieve. What Bruce has done may be the most revolutionary improvement in steel guitars since MSA came out with the nylon tuners on their changer. I don't think it should be diminished. And I know there is a market for it. Is it for everyone? No. Not everyone will want to tune like this, backwards to them. There are overtones that some people may not find desirable, and will have a hard time with while tuning.

I started this thread because the "toothpaste is out of the tube", so to speak, and it's real hard to get it back in. I've played this guitar on three steel shows, and it's been noticed. I feel the Forum is for the exchange of information, and this is something new I believe people would like to know about.[This message was edited by Randy Beavers on 16 October 2003 at 03:38 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 16 Oct 2003 11:21 am

Hi Randy,
I'm eager to meet your new guitar.
See you at PSGA,
Jim

Jim Smith · Post by **Jim Smith** » 16 Oct 2003 11:23 am

A great guitar lets you sound like who you are.

Excellant observation Randy!

If a guitar doesn't produce the sound you want to hear, no amount of convincing by anyone is going to make you happy with its sound.

[This message was edited by Jim Smith on 16 October 2003 at 12:24 PM.]

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 16 Oct 2003 4:49 pm

Well,I didn`t wont to sound negative or nothing like that,Randy,I`m sure your Zum is a great instrument,I`m just kind of geting tired of people trying to compare every guitar to Emmons push pull.Why?Leave it alone and get the guitar you like.Every guitar should sound different,every guitar should have its own "THAT" tone so different people with different taste for "THAT" tone can buy what makes them happy.I love old Emmons, I just hate its mechanics (btw.every p/p I bought was set up and restored to perfection,but p/p has a stiffer pedal action and everyone who has one knows that,nothing like Sho~Bud or Mullen) and also, I played few Zum guitars and didn`t like them.Other people love them and thats cool,but I really don`t care what other people like if I`m spending my money to buy it.I also don`t wont to preach about "THAT" Emmons tone,I`m tired of that too,people should play whatever they like and let other people play what they like,at least that is the way I think.I personaly love push pull,but I think that would be desisster if every guitar would sound the same.And at the end,push pull has it`s own sound no matter if Buddy plays it or not.Buddy would sound like Buddy on any guitar he plays.He is the best living steel player on the world after all.Him and Lloyd and imagine what,Lloyd doesn`t even play an Emmons.

btw,I didn`t have a chanse to play the "NEW" Zum,if I do one day, I may love it and buy it myself,why not.I don`t wont to live in the box.
Define the Emmons tone? Plug any push pull (ANY) in the good steel amp and you`ll hear it.You don`t even have to play it,just strum accross the strings.
and the most interesting thing is that I don`t even have an Emmons,I`m playing a Sho~Bud...

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[This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 October 2003 at 05:57 PM.][This message was edited by Damir Besic on 16 October 2003 at 05:59 PM.]

Jerry Fleming · Post by **Jerry Fleming** » 16 Oct 2003 5:11 pm

IMHO We need to step back and give credit where credit is due. Bruce has made a major break through with this new guitar. I think it is very exciting! I really checked out the mechanics of the changer and tuning. I could not get over the acoustic coupling and overtones. I am not an expert by any means but I was very impressed with the mechanics and sound. I recorded Randy's set Sat. night and I can tell you his tone was impeccable. His chord voicing really shows just how well balanced this guitar is. It is a keeper!

Randy you sounded great my friend! Enjoy your new guitar and I hope you enjoy the CD as much as I have.

Jerry

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 16 Oct 2003 5:43 pm

What a wonderful example of how hard headed and persnickity steel players are. Zum gets close to the Holy Grail of Steel sounds and some players can't/won't believe it.
You guys ought to be jumping up and down that a builder is actually putting in some R@D on the steel and trying to improve the instrument. It's done in the underarm guitar world all the time and welcomed by players.

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 17 Oct 2003 4:33 am

Something of significance I forgot to mention. Cabinet drop. The 4th string, E, on the E9th neck has 1.6 cents of drop with A & B pedals pushed. The 6th string has 1.3 cents of drop with A pedal pushed. These measurements were taken with my Peterson V-Sam strobe tuner.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 17 Oct 2003 6:19 am

Bill, I agree. Bruce Zumsteg was smart enough to find a way to add the growling overtones back into his guitars. Its what I feel most guitars that are being made today are missing. They are too sterile sounding. Guys, if you have ears that can recognize these overtones you will here them immediately in Zums new design.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 17 Oct 2003 5:23 pm

is there a web site for the Zum guitars?I would like to know more about the new technology used on them.

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Jim Whitaker · Post by **Jim Whitaker** » 17 Oct 2003 5:27 pm

Damir Bruce Zumsteg doesn't have a website.
Just a phone #

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JIM
"Zum SD10 3/6 ""Carter SD10" "74" LTD & Session LTD, Profex II "55" Esquire, "63 Epiphone, "63" Precision,
"71" Jazz

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 17 Oct 2003 5:51 pm

And to think I am thinking of parting with my Emmons pp..wow I had better think it over again,,,what ya say Damir??

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 18 Oct 2003 9:20 am

Randy is that the guitar you had at Bill jobes jam???if so tone was nice very nice....
(got past the zum police agian heheheheh)

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

Randy Beavers · Post by **Randy Beavers** » 18 Oct 2003 10:09 am

Hello Scott,

Yes, that's the guitar. Bruce just finished with it the day before. Guitar and I were sort of on our "honeymoon."

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 18 Oct 2003 10:11 am

Damir, I would like to back up what Randy said about the ease of the pedal action on his push pull. If Randy makes a statement I am persuaded to believe it. His push pull has helper springs on the pulls and does indeed play extremely good. It is some good ole' Bobby Bowman ingeniuty. Maybe some Randy Beaver's thinking went into in, that I don't know. I saw the guitar about half way thru the set up and they went all out to make it play great and that showed in Randy's performance at Scotty's show.
Jerry

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 18 Oct 2003 1:33 pm

Sometimes I get in trouble for lobying for the good old p/p and I like to remind everyone that I absolutly love ALL steel guitars, they all are great instruments and make some of the best music to me.I always had a push pulls with the action little stifeer than the all pull guitars,is there a p/p with a butter easy action?It may very well be.Jody,I see you are selling your `69 same same way I was selling my D-12 ,it was on the Ebay few times and I always took it back of because I realy didn`t wont to sell it,it was a great guitar,what do I think you should do with your `69 Emmons is definetly keep it,if you don`t feel like playing it right now put it under the bed for a while and when you take it back out it will knock you of with the sound all over again.So stop trying to sell it and put up with all those "experts" telling you how old and not-perfect that guitar is and keep it for yourself.I think we are very fortunate to have all those different steels out there and we have a choice to pick one we like most ,Emmons or Zum or Mullen or ZB whatever you like, buy it and most important,play it.I would love one thing tho,to hear more pedal steel on the new records, and to tell you honestly I don`t care what brand it would be,just give me more crying steel you dumb Nashville producers...

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