3 pedal steel guitars... one sound, or 3?.. take a guess

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 5 Feb 2014 5:56 pm

We did something like this here several years ago, and had a lot of fun with it.. I posted 6 recordings of 3 different guitars, an old MSA, A ProIII, and a Carter..
Many guys said they all sounded very close, but finally an audio engineer with a good ear guessed correctly, and heard distinct differences.. Anyway, I have clips of 3 very different guitars.. A pull/release Marlen S10 maple lacquer w single coil,, A MSA Classic S10 with SS humbucker and Maple/lacquer body, and an old Fender 800 cable pull steel. stock pickup.. Just messing around over the last year or so while dialing them in, I made little recordings, just me playing, a small amp, and a mike into the computer.. these are NOT high quality recordings, but are clear enough...

I will be honest, if I didn't know which guitar was which, I would have no clue by listening.. They all sound very close, using the same amp, same settings and recording technique...

Take a guess...
The Soundcloud clips are Steel #1, Steel#2, and down at the bottom of the list is steel #3...
I would like to see if anyone can get them right.. Some guys say all pedal steels are actually pretty similar sounding, others say they sound very different... Me, I am on the fence.. I just know that no matter what steel I play, they always sound pretty close, as they do in these clips.. Please forgive the mistakes, and random doodling.. Its just cheap licks and chords strung together with no rhyme or reason for the most part, but you'll get the idea... Ist correct answer gets a million dollars and choice of an Anapeg or mint condition Bigsby... bob

https://soundcloud.com/spongebob-7

Jim Park · Post by **Jim Park** » 5 Feb 2014 6:27 pm

Here's my guess

Steel #1 - Fender
Steel #2 - MSA
Steel #3 - Marlen

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 5 Feb 2014 6:46 pm

Hmmmmm,

I would say...

1. Fender
2. Marlen
3. MSA

Josh Rossow · Post by **Josh Rossow** » 5 Feb 2014 6:56 pm

Gunna guess clip 1 Fender, clip 2 MSA, and clip 3 Marlen. I liked the playing by the way.

Ken Campbell · Post by **Ken Campbell** » 5 Feb 2014 7:17 pm

3 fender
2 marlin
1 msa

All three sounded great.

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 5 Feb 2014 7:35 pm

Hey Bob C.

Could you post a link of the last test you mentioned?

Thanks

Bruce Derr · Post by **Bruce Derr** » 5 Feb 2014 8:15 pm

My guess is the same as Ken's:
1 - MSA
2 - Marlen
3 - Fender

Hey Bob, I'm loving the Carter, btw. Glad you found that Marlen, sounds like you're really enjoying it. -Bruce

Don Poland · Post by **Don Poland** » 5 Feb 2014 8:58 pm

I have no idea, Bob, but I sure did enjoy your playing amazing grace

Bob Muller · Post by **Bob Muller** » 5 Feb 2014 11:18 pm

Just guessing, but here's my pick.

1.Fender
2. MSA
3. Marlen

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 6 Feb 2014 1:48 am

From my phone....And really not a clue!

MSA
MARLEN
FENDER

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 6 Feb 2014 4:57 am

Fender
Marlin
MSA

Not much difference!

Bill Duncan · Post by **Bill Duncan** » 6 Feb 2014 5:13 am

I would like to hear a blind test with three MSA guitars.

A solid maple with lacquer.

A formica over laminate board.

A formica over maple.

I've read posts where people claim one or the other sounds better, worse, different, and no difference. I've known people to claim a noticeable sound difference with just varying the finish, be it lacquer, polyurethane, polyester, no finish or what ever.

I believe it would be interesting.

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 6 Feb 2014 10:58 am

1 marlen

2 msa

3 fender

Gary Cooper · Post by **Gary Cooper** » 6 Feb 2014 11:03 am

1 fender 2 MSA 3 Marlen

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 6 Feb 2014 12:30 pm

I agree with Gary. #1=Fender, #2=MSA and #3=Marlen.
Thanks again for the Marty Stuart Hummingbyrd post.
Stay warm up there, Duncan

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 6 Feb 2014 3:16 pm

meh,, you guys stink.. Bunch of tin ears... LOL!!!... HA! I kill me...

Actually, I played a bit of a "trick" on one guitar to throw you off, and it seems to be working...

In any case, these guitars are all completely different, yet sound very close, because of the players ears[tin], hands[concrete], and heart. [failing].. Settings were pretty much the same , bass around 5, treble at 6 or so.. One amp [ on 2 samples] is a Roland 80 XL, and the other is a vintage Traynor tube amp with 4 x8 inch speakers, also very dis similar yet still real close in sound on these recordings...
I have a feeling that the lo fi nature of the recordings is part of the reason for the "sameness", but that only goes so far.. Its not a pro recording, but they are fairly clean sounding clips - to my ears anyway.. When I play these guitars here at home, there are subtle differences.. The key word is subtle.. That MSA guitar is suppossed to be by all accounts "muddy sounding".. Its not, not at all, even with the stock muddy SS Humbucker that many guys[ like me!] yank out...
anyway, any more guesses??.. I am kind of enjoying this... bob

Greg Johnson · Post by **Greg Johnson** » 6 Feb 2014 3:51 pm

Fender
Marlin
MSA

Regardless which is which your right very little difference.

Douglas Schuch · Post by **Douglas Schuch** » 6 Feb 2014 4:19 pm

Well, for what it's worth, I would say:

Steel 2: Fender

Steel 1: MSA

Steel 3: Marlin

(listed in the order they are on your website)

John De Maille · Post by **John De Maille** » 6 Feb 2014 7:16 pm

#1. Marlen
#2. Fender
#3. MSA

David Higginbotham · Post by **David Higginbotham** » 6 Feb 2014 7:39 pm

John D. Wrote:

#1. Marlen
#2. Fender
#3. MSA

I've never had a Marlen but I agree with John as well.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 7 Feb 2014 2:42 am

Scott Swartz is correct.. I originally made a mistake thinking he got it wrong, but when I checked the post, he was correct..

Guitar 1 was the Marlen, 2 was the MSA, and 3 was the Fender.. Several guys got the "brightest" and "darkest" sounding guitars backwards.. I played the MSA with an attack that was kind of old school.. A little closer to the bridge, and thought about what a Fender cable steel sounds like.. They do "pull" different than a rodded guitar, with a nice longish "swoop" to each note bend either up or down.. Its hard to explain, but its there..
I am just playing around here of course, but its kind of fun knowing that there are so many preconceptions.. You know, MSA's are muddy, Fenders are bright, etc..
As you heard 3 very different steels had a pretty similar sound when played by the same player..
That bright sound is what is in my head I guess and it comes out through the equipment.. As stated earlier, I think these same clips done in a good studio would have brought out the individual characteristics of each steel better than my crappy computer recorder.. It is an interesting experiment however regarding our ears and our preconceptions.. I had fun with this post, thanks to all, you guys are wonderful sports.. One day I would like to do the same thing in my friends studio, using several different steels, and playing the exact same thing on each one, instead of just noodling around incoherently.. Perhaps then the tonal nuances would be more distinct... bob

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 7 Feb 2014 7:42 am

I own a Fender 400, so am pretty familiar with the tone and the harmonic structure. They have less sustain than "modern" steels also, but the main thing is there is more 4-8 kHz content in the Fender tone, a sort of sparkle to it.

The MSA vs. Marlen is less obvious, but I had a MSA for while, and to my ear they have a woody character to their sustain, and I was pretty sure I was hearing that in the recording.

I think it would have been easier with better recordings, and the average bandmate would certainly say they sound very similar and acceptable in a band context.

Josh Rossow · Post by **Josh Rossow** » 7 Feb 2014 7:07 pm

So Scott, what would you of picked, the Anpeg or the mint Bigsby? I had to ask

Scott Swartz · Post by **Scott Swartz** » 7 Feb 2014 9:25 pm

Between pics and seeing them relatively close up at the ISGC various years, definitely the Anapeg.

Not sure I would take one to a bar gig, but I crave good mechanics and tone.

The interesting thing is my Fender 400 is every bit as accurate as my Williams 600. The pulls and returns are dead on, however I did disassemble and carefully clean everything and it was like new when I got it. The single raise single lower is limiting, but thats part of it I guess.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 8 Feb 2014 4:46 am

Scott Swartz wrote:Between pics and seeing them relatively close up at the ISGC various years, definitely the Anapeg.

Not sure I would take one to a bar gig, but I crave good mechanics and tone.

The interesting thing is my Fender 400 is every bit as accurate as my Williams 600. The pulls and returns are dead on, however I did disassemble and carefully clean everything and it was like new when I got it. The single raise single lower is limiting, but thats part of it I guess.

Scott.. send me your address, and we'll get that Anapeg right out to you!.. oh yeah, they aren't built anymore... oh well, sorry about that!

VERY interesting you said that about the Fender.. The Fender 800 S10 I owned and played on this thread was extremely accurate and precise as well, with dead on pulls, solid stops, never went out of tune EVER, and NEVER broke a string.
It was a well engineered guitar, and played beautifully.. Thats another misconception among steel players, that these are primitive "bad playing" steels.. The 800 had double raise and lower and wasn't limited at all as far as I am concerned..

I am often puzzled that there aren't more guys willing to pay a decent price for them.. It was the heaviest S10 I ever saw, and THAT was a factor in my decision to sell it.. As you heard, it did everything the other steels could do... bob