Playing live without an amp

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 22 May 2013 10:38 pm

A caveat is that I haven't ever played in Africa or anything... I've played in some third world countries and had pretty good luck though...

Craig Schwartz · Post by **Craig Schwartz** » 23 May 2013 6:20 am

Stephen Cowell wrote:
Craig Schwartz wrote: Phil, I have a line x-former that =`s INPUT 500 OHM TO OUTPUT 50 K OHM , It doesnt work at all , What specs do you use for the line X-former.
You have it backwards... input to the 50K side, output from the 600ohm side. A line transformer is a two-way device, you can run it either way.

Thanks Stephen

Wayne Dahl · Post by **Wayne Dahl** » 25 May 2013 7:35 pm

In the past 16 years playing for Martina McBride I've had to run direct. For a long time I used the Boss/Roland rack mount multi effects units that had the preamp in them. They always sounded sterile and uninspiring. Them I discovered Brad Sarno's V8 Octal preamp, and its been a tonal life saver! Yes, it was a huge improvement in my tone, but there was still a high end sizzle that was prevalent. After talking to our sound monitor guy about the problem, he suggested going through the "low-pass filter" on the monitor board. After trying different frequencies, I decided around 4k was it. What happens with the low-pass filter is it cuts all the high frequencies above 4k, thus eliminating the high end sizzle! My settings on the V8 preamp are, bass 12 noon and treble 1 o'clock. BTW, I avoid using any EQ (Flat)on the monitor board because it's just not needed. So, for those of you having trouble with the high end sizzle running direct, try engaging the low-pass filter:)

Jay Ganz · Post by **Jay Ganz** » 26 May 2013 6:17 am

Wayne Dahl wrote:.... but there was still a high end sizzle that was prevalent. After talking to our sound monitor guy about the problem, he suggested going through the "low-pass filter" on the monitor board. After trying different frequencies, I decided around 4k was it. What happens with the low-pass filter is it cuts all the high frequencies above 4k, thus eliminating the high end sizzle!

That's why some preamps have a speaker simulator built right into them that do the same thing.
If your playing thru a powered speaker cabinet you don't need it...but if your playing thru a full range PA set up
or head phones, that crispy sizzle is a bit annoying.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 26 May 2013 10:52 am

I`ve been using this box after my preamp and effects:

http://www.palmer-germany.com/mi/en/PDI ... -PDI09.htm

Chris Harvey · Post by **Chris Harvey** » 23 Sep 2013 9:23 pm

I also use my ipad running amplitube with Fender amps and effect (delay) plugins. It sounds great with or without the Black Box. I have a junky little PA at home I used to check it out prior to going live. The best result I have is to run a splitter out - one side going to a XLR adapter which goes to the PA (summed), and a good in ear monitor or ear bud to the other side (unless the PA has wireless in ear of course). That said, of course I'd rather take my Twin to a gig, but nowadays that's not always a possibility, not to mention an ipad weighs quite a bit less than a twin reverb

Gerry Simon · Post by **Gerry Simon** » 23 Sep 2013 9:58 pm

Chris...How does an Ipad connect to the steel and amps; I know it doesn't even have a USB port/ what are the connectors/connections, if you please?

Chris Harvey · Post by **Chris Harvey** » 24 Sep 2013 5:59 am

The only time I use my Ipad is when I have to have to go direct to a PA, however, you can use it with your amp (and I have for the effects) and it sounds great.

You'll need the following in order to get it with as little latency and clarity as possible.

Input from steel to Ipad using an Irig or Irig HD, though the apogee jam sounds the best to me.

Irig:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... -ipod-ipad

Apogee Jam:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audi ... ne-and-mac

The Apogee one is a step up and Apogee Duet the flagship (ouch on the price)

For the output you can use the standard speaker speaker output cable with a 1/4" adapter out to your amp or PA.

For PA only situations I use for outbound:

A splitter: One side I can run to my earbuds so I can hear myself along with the monitor. The other goes to the PA with either a speaker cable as indicated above OR a mini plug to XLR which can run to the PA.

Splitter

http://www.igearusa.com/headphone-adapt ... QgodnUQAtg

XLR Adapter:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/control ... details&Q=

Amplitube Fender App:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/amplitu ... 33125?mt=8

Amplitube Standard ( I like this as you can also purchase the fender amps if you'd like as well as oodles of effects if you're into that type of thing). I just use the fender amps, tape echo or delay, chorus. They have a nice mellow distortion (which I don't use) and the octaver is pretty nice.

There may be a SMALL amount of latency (time you play to when you hear it) but a few milliseconds has never bothered me or the band.

It sounds more complex than it is but check out the image below:

If you get into this there's SO much you can do which includes recording with the Auria app, using multiple apps for sounds using Audiobus etc.

If you want to use just the effects and get way over the top you can look at this:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTIPB10

Hope this helps.

David Cubbedge · Post by **David Cubbedge** » 24 Sep 2013 8:04 am

One of the bands I play in requires me to use my Pod XT with a DI. So I have to choose an amp model within the Pod and dial it in. At the moment I use the Line 6 Clean amp with a 15" speaker cabinet, all virtual. Pod users will know what I'm talking about. I set up the Pod 'mic' to use 80% of the 'room', this gives it a warm sound. I use Shure ear buds, can't recall the model number, but they cost me around $100 and have given me pretty good sound with what appears to be substantial braided wires. Our monitor system is by PreSonus and my in-ear mix is totally controlled through my iPhone. We have a dedicated wireless network, which also allows us to mix the mains through an iPad. It took a couple of months to work through the bugs in the system, but at the moment it is all set up, ready to go and pretty reliable.

Having said all that, there is NOTHING like the sound I get when I play my Emmons through my trusty Twin Reverb. I haven't been able to duplicate that sound within the Pod....yet.

Chris Harvey · Post by **Chris Harvey** » 24 Sep 2013 5:46 pm

Okay so I did a rundown on cost for what I'm using.

Amplitube: $20.00
Plugins:(a better chorus and a deluxe reverb). 6.00

Note: The Amplitube Fender app has all the great tones and is only $9.00. You just can't purchase too many plugins.

Irig Adapter: 40.00

I pod Klip to hook on the leg: 40.00

10ft cable to PA: 6.00

I also bought the Peterson app for 10.00 though I still prefer the hardware unit (I think)

$112.00 (103.00 if you buy the Fender version of amplitube) - Not bad for a rig you can take anywhere and record with as well.

Gerry Simon · Post by **Gerry Simon** » 24 Sep 2013 10:07 pm

Chris, Thanks a lot for the run down...I've been wondering how this was done and it seems pretty cool, certainly something to consider if doing air travel and not having to haul an amp! Sounds like a lot of people who use this direct approach feel it's not as good as the actual amp they are used to using but I'm not sure it would make a difference to most audience members as even individual amps lose a lot of their character in the cacophony of band,and audience noises...

Chris Harvey · Post by **Chris Harvey** » 25 Sep 2013 7:39 am

So true. I love my twin, and always will. I've played so many places recently that they put a direct box in line before the amp that it didn't make sense to even take it. Using a microphone on an amp seems to be going by the wayside in many places, and the sound on these apps is only getting better. Glad the info helped

Steve French · Post by **Steve French** » 7 Dec 2013 10:45 am

Chris -- a couple more questions:

How do you control your earbud volume? Controlling output volume in the iPad would also affect the send level to the board, would it not? Also, in your picture, I see the older 30 pin connector into your iPad. That's coming from the iRig, right? What sort of cable or goes from iRig to iPad?

Thanks for sharing your setup!

Steve

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 7 Dec 2013 2:14 pm

Chris where are you playing these gigs in California? Just wondering cause I play over a 100 shows on steel in California every year and I have never, even one time, had someone put a direct box before my amp.

I would not be happy if they did either! (but thats just my sound)

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 7 Dec 2013 7:06 pm

Is that ever a meeting of technologies, a 60's ShoBud fingertip, and an Ipad. LOL

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 12 Dec 2013 8:05 pm

josh...i'm with you. played all over, big and small. with just my amp and maybe a mic on it.

or just the steel into the board in a studio.[/list]

Craig Schwartz · Post by **Craig Schwartz** » 13 Dec 2013 12:19 pm

I dont know much about alot of things, but I will say the one and only time a sound engineer stuck a Di box in front of my input to my fender, The sound he reproduced was phenominal, I would welcome it anytime. I actually stold the show that day ...

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 13 Dec 2013 3:24 pm

Here is a cheap knock off a Tech 21 Blonde that works pretty good.

http://www.cheaperpedals.com/collection ... f-14-pedal

I bought the Joyo Tremolo pedal and was impressed with it.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 13 Dec 2013 7:23 pm

craig..i think i had good luck with them once or twice, as you did. it does rely on the knowledge of the soundperson, and that's where it can get iffy sometimes.

Craig Schwartz · Post by **Craig Schwartz** » 14 Dec 2013 6:13 am

Chris, If I remember correctly, I had just purchased a desktop pod HD when it was brandy new on the market and it was in front of HIS DI, He saw it and didnt like the older line 6 desktops and wasnt familiar wth the new HD. He was cuttin it all down, So I let him do his thing and I still had most of the control on my volumes, parameters and Amp. It was a real eye opener for both of us when the first couple of songs were played with a 9 piece band and me being a lead in a Steely Dan cover band on E9, Sometimes things just work out good.

Miguel Saldana · Post by **Miguel Saldana** » 14 Dec 2013 12:13 pm

Just wanted to chime in regarding the iPad approach.

I'm not at the point of gigging yet, but it is very handy for late-night home practice and I am certain it could be very usable as a direct to PA approach.

I use an iPad mic stand mount onto the front right leg of the steel which positions the iPad at a very readable point. It comes in handy for when reading tab or watching YouTube videos while practicing.

For the interface, I use a Sonic Port, but a lot of options are now available. For the modeling app, I'm using the BIAS app from Positive Grid. Really great sound to be had. I used to use Amplitube, but there always seemed to be some speckles of distortion that I couldn't dial out. ClearTune app allows you to create custom temperaments.

If you already have an iPad, it can be used for a very nice setup.

Jerry Tillman · Post by **Jerry Tillman** » 25 Dec 2013 9:27 am

I have had some verygood success with a Radial Tbone right into the board.It has some nice EQ,two inputs,a boost button and many outputs.I grab a moniter and put it right in front of my steel.It has work at all volume levels from normal to the new rock country volumes.I also run one line to the board and one to a stage amp sometimes just to cut out the hassle of a stage mind on my amp,cuts out a lot of problems.This unit is mainly known as an acoustic preamp di but it does much more.I take it along on all jobs as my spare amp also.

Alan Berdoulay · Post by **Alan Berdoulay** » 31 Dec 2013 8:37 am

Do any of you ipad folks use one of these?

Marty Broussard · Post by **Marty Broussard** » 30 Jun 2019 8:43 pm

Reviving this thread because I suspect that an abundance of technical/product advances have been made and thereâ€™s some players that have gained extensive experience over the years with the various options discussed and subsequently discovered. I started an original post before I found this one so please provide comments on either/both.

Note: Although it currently wouldnâ€™t be my first choice I do have an IPad that I donâ€™t use so how many of you have experienced any â€œcrashesâ€ or other problems during a live show? Itâ€™s interesting to me that I could possibly obtain a Tuner, Amp simulator, an array of Effects combinations and some possible tone shaping add onsâ€”all with my IPad and accessories.

With the amount of fly dates in my future Iâ€™m anxious to explore any/all options to downsize my rigâ€”-if it can be done in a reliable/road-worthy way.

Thank you for any help.

Best regards,

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 1 Jul 2019 12:49 am

I use a BAGGS Venue DI as a preamp on gigs now and then, its pretty STEEL friendly in that it has an excellent EQ profile. BASS, Hi and LO MIDS, Presence and Treble. Just be sure to keep the NOTCH FILTER OFF . This unit has a 1/4 out and a XLR out, on board tuner , gain and volume controls. Oh yeh it has a boost ( user set ) if you need it. I use this as a Dobro preamp for every Dobro/ Acoustic gig. Also has an effects loop " send and return "

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Playing live without an amp

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