Fender Pedal Steel

Michael Coggins · Post by **Michael Coggins** » 7 Dec 2013 6:38 am

I was in a local music shop today buying a guitar for my daughter. I told the owner I was learning the PSG, he said "oh I think I have one of those out back".

Here are the pics, anyone know what model it is and year of manufacture if possible. PAT No. is 2838974.

Many thanks to Alec at TAYLORS GALLERY & MUSIC CENTRE, CASTLEBALDWIN, SLIGO.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 7 Dec 2013 8:18 am

That guitar was built by Sho~Bud for Fender.

Bob Knight · Post by **Bob Knight** » 7 Dec 2013 9:03 am

1970s, same as a Sho~Bud Maverick. Worth $350-$400 USD.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 7 Dec 2013 11:24 am

It's a Fender/Sho~Bud "student model", very similar to a Maverick. Made in '76-'77, but not as good as most of the Fender/Sho~Bud "Artist" models from the same period.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 7 Dec 2013 6:06 pm

Looks exactly like my first steel,bought new in 1977.If I took pics,they're long gone.Sold it a couple of years later when I got a used MSA Classic.

Michael Coggins · Post by **Michael Coggins** » 9 Dec 2013 5:07 am

Thanks for the info guys.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 10 Dec 2013 10:13 am

Mike
if you have a few tools or know some one with a shop - this old Fender can be expanded to a very playable guitar - I have had one sense the early 70’s and still enjoy it today - its not the same as it was years ago but more like a Sho-Bud - if you are interested in a project and the price is right to buy that one , I’d say go for it .

it will take some machine work to do the job, and replacing the changer to complete it but it will do anything the newer guitars will do -

Just my two cents

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Dec 2013 1:12 pm

Why would the changer have to go?
With the exception of splits, pull-release can do anything an all-pull can.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 10 Dec 2013 1:36 pm

your right Lane - like you said before a two hole all pull Sho-Bud changer makes it a better setup -- if you leave the pull / Release system it don’t allow for an over lay neck .

most guy’s would not bother with this but i like the nuts and bolts as much as trying to play one of these beasts

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Dec 2013 4:09 pm

The patent number on the tuning pan is for the pan itself, which predates that guitar by over 20 years. I had an email about the Student vs. Artist models, and it suffices to say that the Artist version (pictured below) was a similar, but far better instrument. Along with adjustable chrome legs, it also offered a raised neck, and better changer. Value on these is difficult to quantify and predict, as they're neither a true Sho~Bud, nor are they a true Fender, although I do agree with a $300-$400 valuation on the Student model, and probably $500-$600 on an Artist S10.

They're a lot of fun, as long as you accept them for what they are, and don't go hog-wild trying to upgrade them, as it probably won't pay off when you go to sell.

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 10 Dec 2013 4:32 pm

I like the gray flocking in the tuning pan.

Michael Coggins · Post by **Michael Coggins** » 11 Dec 2013 5:20 am

Bob, I'm a toolmaker by trade so making parts would not be a problem, however getting enough time to do it properly would be

Donny, I was wondering about the patent and what it covered. I'm tempted to make the guy an offer after seeing your pic of the Artist S10, but that's just GAS I suppose!
Thanks for all the comments guys, you certainly are a knowledgeable lot.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Dec 2013 10:30 am

As I said, the patent covers just the shape and design of the stamped-steel tuning pan, which supports and mounts the tuners. This "low-buck approach" allowed Fender to not have to use machined aluminum blocks or castings, which are the standard tuner mounting devices on most all other pedal steels. Stamped sheet metal parts cost a small fraction of what machined parts cost, and Fender was very big on using inexpensive sheet metal parts on their instruments.

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 11 Dec 2013 3:55 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:The patent number on the tuning pan is for the pan itself, which predates that guitar by over 20 years. I had an email about the Student vs. Artist models, and it suffices to say that the Artist version (pictured below) was a similar, but far better instrument. Along with adjustable chrome legs, it also offered a raised neck, and better changer. Value on these is difficult to quantify and predict, as they're neither a true Sho~Bud, nor are they a true Fender, although I do agree with a $300-$400 valuation on the Student model, and probably $500-$600 on an Artist S10.

They're a lot of fun, as long as you accept them for what they are, and don't go hog-wild trying to upgrade them, as it probably won't pay off when you go to sell.

$500-600 for a Fender Artist S10???.. I'll tale two dozen please!!... Clean ones have been selling on this very forum for $1200-1300 past few years... They are a combination of Fender and Sho bud parts.. Fender changer, pickup, tuning pan, and Sho Bud pot metal undercarriage.. I like them myself, but doubt I would pay $1200 for one myself... bob

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 12 Dec 2013 8:46 am

Bob Carlucci wrote:
$500-600 for a Fender Artist S10???.. I'll tale two dozen please!!... Clean ones have been selling on this very forum for $1200-1300 past few years.

That's true, Bob, but you'd be buying them to "flip", not to play.

It might interest you to know that the 2013 price guides have a top price of $825...for a D10 Artist 8+4...in excellent condition.

People often pay too much, and I've seen Mavericks sell for $1200, and Multi-Kords for over $800.

Go figure.

Miguel Saldana · Post by **Miguel Saldana** » 13 Dec 2013 7:32 pm

I've had the pleasure to own both Student and Artist models. The student version was nice for its simplicity. Although often lumped together with the Sho Bud Maverick, I feel like the mechanism on the Fender is better. I have a thread with photos comparing the two if you search the forum.

I ended up trading up to the artist model, which certainly feels more refined. The pickups looked the same, but the artist version sounded much more articulate with less emphasis on the bass.

I picked up the student version for $500 locally from a Craigslist ad. If I had found an artist in the $800 range I would have jumped on that price. I paid a fair amount more including the trade of the student model for the artist, but still am very happy with the deal.

Jerry Hedge · Post by **Jerry Hedge** » 13 Dec 2013 8:30 pm

The first pedal steel I owned was one of the Fender student models. I traded George Gruhn a Gretch guitar around 1990 that I had bought for next to nothing for at a guitar show. I thought I had made the deal of the century... until I talked to a steel player that came into the guitar shop I worked at. He said "If you want to play like the big boys you need at least 4 knee levers on that thing. Around that time I met Ed Naylor (RIP) who set it up as an all pull with 4 knee levers!!! Between that guitar, a Bruce Bouthan (sp)video and another by my good friend Kenny Holycross I was led down the path that brought me to where I am now. Under that Black vinyl covering was a beautiful bird's eye maple body. That old guitar sounded GREAT!!!I traded it for my first Sho-Bud Pro 3 Custom, which I still have.I wish I would have kept that Fender!!!

Craig Baker · Post by **Craig Baker** » 13 Dec 2013 8:51 pm

My first pedal steel was a Fender 800. While Fender's stamped tuning pan may have been a cost-saving measure, those Fenders are by far, the easiest guitar in the world to re-string. The new string can't slip off the end of the tuning peg, OR the changer. Keeping the string ends captive was brilliant and could easily be made using a solid casting on today's guitars.

Then I remember those famous six words that always put up a brick wall. . . "We've always done it this way"

Warmest wishes for the Christmas season
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 14 Dec 2013 9:49 am

Donny Hinson wrote:
Bob Carlucci wrote:
$500-600 for a Fender Artist S10???.. I'll tale two dozen please!!... Clean ones have been selling on this very forum for $1200-1300 past few years.
That's true, Bob, but you'd be buying them to "flip", not to play. It might interest you to know that the 2013 price guides have a top price of $825...for a D10 Artist 8+4...in excellent condition. People often pay too much, and I've seen Mavericks sell for $1200, and Multi-Kords for over $800.

Go figure.

I'd have to agree with Bob on this one. As far as price guides go, like the Vintage Guitar Price Guide, the information they glean is from guitar shows and guitar stores that are generally ignorant of the steel guitar in general, and especially the PSG market. A price guide book, by its very nature, is only a photograph of a particular value at a particular time, and I question the knowledge base of those doing the compilations. I find eBay and this forum to be more indicative of what's being paid for a particular model guitar.

I've had a couple Fender Artist models and liked them a lot, for the "Fender tone," and I ignored the pot metal parts underneath. Just not enough to keep them for the duration. But I could see how a session player might keep one handy for the times when he's requested to come up with the "early Ralph Mooney" sound.

I have a feel that the knife edge changer is a contributor to the unique sound of these guitars.

Craig Baker · Post by **Craig Baker** » 14 Dec 2013 10:16 am

Herb,
Good wisdom.

I've always felt the Fender tone was due to the hardened steel (then chrome on top of that) changer.
It would be hard to find a bell with great tone and sustain made from hardened steel. Never studied metallurgy, but bell makers always go for soft non-ferrous metals, brass, bronze, etc. Mr. Jackson and Mr. Lashley had it right.

Warmest wishes for the Christmas season
Craig Baker 706-485-8792

cmbakerelectronics@gmail.com

C.M. Baker Electronics
P.O. Box 3965
Eatonton, GA 31024

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Dec 2013 7:59 pm

Herb Steiner wrote: I'd have to agree with Bob on this one. As far as price guides go, like the Vintage Guitar Price Guide, the information they glean is from guitar shows and guitar stores that are generally ignorant of the steel guitar in general, and especially the PSG market. A price guide book, by its very nature, is only a photograph of a particular value at a particular time, and I question the knowledge base of those doing the compilations.

I feel the same way, Herb, but something is affecting that guitar's value in their eyes. (Admittedly, you or I probably know more about pedal steels than anyone on the VG staff.) I found the $825 D10 price to be quite low, and thought there might have been an error. Going back 5 years, they put the value of the same guitar at between $700 and $1,000. So, I have to conclude they aren't impressed with the Fender/Sho~Bud heritage. The same books, however, put the value for a D10 Sho~Bud at $1800-$2200, and the value for an Emmons p/p at $2900. You'll have to admit...these numbers aren't far off the mark. My own personal valuation for an Artist is $800 for an S10, and somewhere around $1200 for a D10. If anyone wants to pay more, they are welcome, but I wouldn't advise prospective buyers to go much above these numbers, considering the other alternatives that are out there.

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 15 Dec 2013 7:49 am

Is this all about resale value ? or building a guitar to suit ones self -- theres a lot of pleasure in your own craftsmanship as well as the music -- its very true , some guitars are / or / would be like making a silk purse out of a sowâ€™s ear and end up still being a sowâ€™s ear -- its my opinion this is not one of thoâ€™s -- if you figure your time - no-way will you break even --- however Michael Coggins the poster of this thread would have no trouble doing this with his background if he were so inclined
I have owned other steels but this is by far the most fun little steel . what i have invested in a student S10 Fender , is say the value Donny mentioned $ 400.oo +/ - plus $150.oo in parts = $650 , and i have a light wt. steel that is a 3 & 5 and Iâ€™m not ashamed to take it on any gig

(again) just my 2 cents

David Clancy · Post by **David Clancy** » 16 Dec 2013 4:27 am

Hi Michael,
Great to see another player from the West of Ireland on here. It looks very simlar to a maverick, which I ad a number of years ago.

Michael Coggins · Post by **Michael Coggins** » 16 Dec 2013 5:22 am

Hello David,
Greetings from Sligo via California!
Thanks for that.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 16 Dec 2013 5:32 am

Bob, I think it's less of a "Can I make money off of this?" than "would this guitar make a good use of my money?"
I mean, for X amount of dollars to purchase plus Y amount of dollars (or pounds, since he's in Eire) to modify, he can get a fully functional guitar. But one can get a ready-to-play fully functional guitar for Z.
The cat says he's a machinist, so he can make his own parts, if he can figure out what to make (fortunately the forum has a mess of folks that can help him figure out how to make it do what he wants it to do)

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