half knee lever?

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 9 Dec 2013 7:44 pm

I am planning on changing my 2nd string lower on my stage one to a full tone lower. Is it possible with practice to still hit the half stop without an actual feel stop on the guitar? Does any one do this? Kind of like a half A pedal?

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 9 Dec 2013 7:55 pm

No problem on my MSA Millenium, easier than A pedal, half stop even.

Craig A Davidson · Post by **Craig A Davidson** » 9 Dec 2013 9:43 pm

If I remember right if you have a ninth string lower the spot that starts your ninth lower will be your feel stop for the D note on the second string.

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 9 Dec 2013 10:32 pm

Its hard enough to do with a feel stop, but Im sure it is possible with enough practice. It won't be easy though, and especially to hit it quickly and accurately.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 10 Dec 2013 2:58 am

I'd practice by hitting the second string and listening to the lowering note. This will not always sound good, as with the A pedal. I'm thinking that with practice you can feel the spot on the lever. As previously stated, if your 9th string lowers, you have your half stop. This will take some practice as well, but is easily accomplished.

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 10 Dec 2013 5:36 am

Add an extra spring to the ST9 lower finger

James Jacoby · Post by **James Jacoby** » 10 Dec 2013 7:22 am

Jason Putnam wrote:I am planning on changing my 2nd string lower on my stage one to a full tone lower. Is it possible with practice to still hit the half stop without an actual feel stop on the guitar? Does any one do this? Kind of like a half A pedal?

-----Yes, Jason, I have two Carter S10s. One stays at home, and the other one stays packed up, to take out. The one I take out, has a feel, half stop, on the E-lever (RKR). The other steel is identical, but without the half stop. I'm not the greatest steel player, ever, but I find that with a lot of reps I get better, and better at hitting the sweet spot on the one without the feel stop. -Jake-

Niels Andrews · Post by **Niels Andrews** » 10 Dec 2013 7:29 am

I keep a Korg OT-120 tuner connected to my steel so at any time I can reference what note and the pitch of that note that might be in question. It has helped me develop my ear. If something sounds foul I can stop and figure out what is wrong and guess what I seem to be stopping a lot less these days.

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 10 Dec 2013 7:55 am

I always find it harder to nail the pitch on the way back up from full tone lower to half. It's not quite as easy to stop exactly where the extra string & spring pressure lets off as it is to stop "against" that extra tension. Does anyone have any tricks for making that spot easier to find?

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 10 Dec 2013 8:25 am

I always use a 1/2 stop on the 2nd string.

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 10 Dec 2013 8:47 am

Carters have those adjustable feel stops, which is really nice. Some Shobuds had something similar under the guitar.

You can also do kind of the same thing if you have a string you don't lower & your steel has set-screw lowering stops: attach an extra rod on your knee lever to the lowering finger of that string with a leverage that allows enough slack so it will engage about halfway through the travel. Tune it to hit exactly where your 1/2 stop is, but turn the set screw all the way in so the string doesn't actually drop at all - you are just using its finger for an adjustable feel stop.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 10 Dec 2013 8:52 am

Thanks for all the replies. I will probably give it a try with the full tone lower and see if I can do it. Unfortunately the stage one is either half tone or full tone. No option for a half stop so I thought maybe if I change it to the full lower I could train myself to get the half lower with enough practice. Theres lots of cool stuff I think Im missing out on without the full lower!! Besides if I cant' I can always change it back.

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 10 Dec 2013 9:54 am

As others have said - if you are lowering 9, that is your feel stop. If you have 2 dropping a whole tone and 9 dropping a half, it will probably work out pretty close anyway that the 9th string lower will kick in about halfway through string 2's travel. If you mess with the leverages on the bellcranks you can get it even closer. (don't know if Stage Ones have lowering set screw stops, if so you can dial it in precisely.) Then tweak up the stiffness of the return spring on 9 so you feel it more.

Lots of amazing licks in there, but I'm no expert - it's an area I've been wanting to devote more practice time to!

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 10 Dec 2013 10:11 am

The stageone doesn't have a lower on 9. only the E's and string 2. But I have successfully changed it to a full lower and have been able to hit the d pretty successfully so far. I think its going to work out ok. Wish I had been brave enough to do it sooner, I was just afraid I would screw something up. But its working!!!

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Dec 2013 10:43 am

Jerry Kippola wrote:Add an extra spring to the ST9 lower finger

Even though my Carted has a half finger in the 11th string spot, it is hard to really tell which point of extra resistance is the right one. My lever that lowers the 2nd string also lowers the 3rd string on the C6th. I may have to give this a try, if possible. I actually also have a half stop on string 4 on my C6 neck. I just made a single stop because it was difficult to feel. The extra spring should help that too, seeing as how both 1/2 stops hook to that one half finger.

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 10 Dec 2013 12:32 pm

Richard - it will probably help if you can get the two half-step lowers on that RKR (9 on E9 & 4 on C6) to engage at the same time, as close as possible to the half-stop point on string 2 E9. That extra 1/2 stop finger is an easy way to add more feel to the 1/2 stop but on the other hand, if you have 3 different levers all engaging only somewhat near each other then it will be a murky stopping point at best. I would line up those other 2 first, then add the 1/2-stop finger & tune it to the same point as an addition to the feel.

Jason, if you want you could add a bellcrank to that RKR and a rod and give yourself the lower on 9. I think maybe those have welded bellcranks, but I don't see why you couldn't clamp one on the shaft - doesn't have to be the same brand parts even, as long as it fits. . . But then, having a smooth whole step lower on 2 might be cool too!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Dec 2013 1:30 pm

I recommend some kind of feel stop/half stop.
Easily half the time I hit the D, I hit it "cold", rather than hitting D# or C#. Therefore the ear can't help you.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 10 Dec 2013 2:01 pm

Lane I would love to have the feel stop but not sure how I could incorporate it in. Not much room and stage one isn't really made for much to be changed. I'm just not sure how I could do it.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Dec 2013 2:26 pm

Is there room between string 10 and rear apron? A MSA or Sho-Bud half stop and a bellcrank don't take up much

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 10 Dec 2013 2:36 pm

I'll post a pic of the area when I get home from work. It has welded bellcranks. Not sure if I can add one.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 10 Dec 2013 2:39 pm

If it has a 9th string lower, you can use ITS crank.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 10 Dec 2013 3:22 pm

It doesn't have it. Just string 2 and E's

Clete Ritta · Post by **Clete Ritta** » 10 Dec 2013 3:27 pm

As I suspected, Jason doesn't have a string 9 lower, so the feel stop point is moot. He hinted to that situation in his original post.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Dec 2013 4:38 pm

Paul Brainard wrote:Richard - it will probably help if you can get the two half-step lowers on that RKR (9 on E9 & 4 on C6) to engage at the same time, as close as possible to the half-stop point on string 2 E9. That extra 1/2 stop finger is an easy way to add more feel to the 1/2 stop but on the other hand, if you have 3 different levers all engaging only somewhat near each other then it will be a murky stopping point at best. I would line up those other 2 first, then add the 1/2-stop finger & tune it to the same point as an addition to the feel.

Jason, if you want you could add a bellcrank to that RKR and a rod and give yourself the lower on 9. I think maybe those have welded bellcranks, but I don't see why you couldn't clamp one on the shaft - doesn't have to be the same brand parts even, as long as it fits. . . But then, having a smooth whole step lower on 2 might be cool too!

I have 2 different levers with half stops. The one on my E9 (RKL) only works the 2nd string on E9 and string 3 on the C6. I do not lower string 9 on the E9 neck. The other half stop is on my LKR in the levers for the C6th neck. It pulls string 4 to a B with a half stop at Bb. That is the only string affected by that lever, and the half stop can be felt, but when used quickly, it is easy to over shoot it.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 10 Dec 2013 4:44 pm

I really would like to use one of those stand-alone stop mechanisms that Lane mentions. I asked Michael Yahl (he has a real cool one), and the collar that would go into a bellcrank on my guitar is too big. I believe his was 1/4 inch and the holes in Carte bellcranks are 3/16 inch. If I could find bellcranks that have a square mount on the cross shaft and 1/4 inch holes in the bellcrank, I could probably pull it off.

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half knee lever?

half knee lever?

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