Solo Needs Help

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Aug 2003 11:45 am

I have a solo in one of the Open Hearts songs that I'm having a hard time playing. Here's the idea: <pre> Dm Em
F#___________1_____1_________|___________3_____3_________|
D#_____1_____________________|_____3L____________________|
G#______________1____________|______________3____________|
E ________1___________1______|________3___________3______|
B __1A___________________1A__|__3A___________________3A__|
D E F G A G F D E F G A B A G E

Fmaj Gsus G
F#___________________________|___________________________
D#___________________________|___________________________
G#___________________________|___________________________
E ___________________________|__3___________3____________
B ___________________________|__3___________3____________
G#___________________________|__3B__________3____________
F G A B C B A F </pre>The problem is the third measure. The 1st and 2nd measure are full ringing scales. I don't have a knee lever that raises the high F# to G, and I can't seem to find a position that will give me that ringing sound for the notes I hear in my head. Any suggestions?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 6 Aug 2003 12:01 pm

b0b I tried that and find if for measure
three you move up to the fourth fret and apply A pedal and Knee lever raising the E's ,,,,
then play strings 5..2..4..1..3..1..4..5
you can maintain the ringing continuity.
Works for me.

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<A HREF="http://www.clictab.com/royt/tabmenu.htm ... abmenu.htm
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Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 6 Aug 2003 12:07 pm

b0b---if you indeed mean B natural, I found a finger pull on the 1st string to be pretty comfortable in the 4th fret like Roy says.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Aug 2003 12:11 pm

You mean pull the 1st string with the fingers behind the bar? That's a technique I've never mastered. I'll give it a try.

The song's in C, so that note has to be a B natural. (Actually the song's in E and I start at the 5th fret. I've transposed it to C for simplicity in this post.)[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 06 August 2003 at 01:14 PM.]

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 6 Aug 2003 12:18 pm

Yes, that is what I mean. I'm surely no master of this but in fact this is the one place that I occasionally do it since my 1st string raise is on LKR which is impossible when I'm doing the F lever (LKL). I find it pretty easy to adjust intonation with the finger pressure just as I would quickly correct any other intonation with bar adjustment.

---in this application it also happens to be a rather forgiving note, intonation-wise, ringing against major second, major third, tritone.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 06 August 2003 at 01:22 PM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 6 Aug 2003 1:36 pm

A finger pull is not necessary if you play the strings in the order I outlined above (from left to right) with A pedal and Knee raising E's at fourth fret your B note is on the 3rd string. The notes all line up perfectly as you specified for the third measure b0b.

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Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 6 Aug 2003 1:41 pm

Sorry guys.

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 6 Aug 2003 1:43 pm

The 3rd string at 4 is a C

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Aug 2003 1:43 pm

No problem, Roy. We all get mixed up sometimes on this confounded instrument.

Jeff Lampert · Post by **Jeff Lampert** » 6 Aug 2003 3:06 pm

Depends on how firm you are about playing it on the 4th fret. Eith of these 2 patterns gives you the same notes, but the combo of ringing notes is different than the way it would be on fret 4.

<pre>1__________3______________3_______________________________________________________
2____3L______________________3L______________________8_____8______________________
3_____________3_~_3b_~_3__________________________________________________________
4_______3_______________________________________________8_________________________
5______________________________________________8_~_8a_________8a__________________
6__________________________________________8b_____________________8b______________
7_________________________________________________________________________________
8_________________________________________________________________________________
9_________________________________________________________________________________
10________________________________________________________________________________</pre>

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 6 Aug 2003 5:18 pm

Those are pretty good alternatives. Thanks, Jeff.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 6 Aug 2003 6:05 pm

<pre>
F#____________5_____5________
D#______5L___________________
G#_______________5L__________
E _________5___________5_____
B ___5R___________________5R_
G#___________________________
F G A B C B A F </pre>
Be sure to raise the B string only a half step.
But I would probably just play it at the 8th fret and not worry about losing the G note (least important note).

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 7 Aug 2003 3:32 am

Since the Emajor scale can be played on open strings using harmonics, the idea mentioned can be played as shown in tab while notes are ringing.
Hold bar w L/H thumb & index and lightly touch strings w tip of ring or middle finger(left hand) at frets shown.

<pre>
Only strings 10 thru 5 shown

E major scale as harmonics
F#-- on open strings
Eb--
G#--
E---
B----------------------------------
G#----------<12>--------<7>--------
F#------<12>---------<7>-----------
E---<12>----------<7>------<5>-----
D--------------<7>-----------------
B----------------------------------
E F# G# A B C# D# E

First part
B------------------------------
G#------<12>-------------------
F#--<12>--------<7>------<12>--
E------------<7>---<7>---------
D---------<7>---------<7>------
B------------------------------

second part
B------------------------------
G#--<12>--------<7>------<12>--
F#-----------<7>---<7>---------
E---------<7>---------<7>------
D------<7>---------------------
B------------------------------

third part
B------------------------------
G#-----------<7>---<7>---------
F#--------<7>---------<7>------
E------<7>------<5>------<7>---
D---<7>------------------------
B------------------------------
</pre>

Dont know if you can use this but it is one way to play the idea w a lot of ringing notes w no slides or bends.

Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 07 August 2003 at 10:57 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 7 Aug 2003 4:22 am

Bobby L.

Could I ask very politely, how long have you been without the 1st string 1/2 tone raise? That is, the F# to G change of the E9th tuning. It is the 4th most important change, when combined with the 7th string 1/2 tone raise option. It's hard to mimic the sound of that raise, when used in combination with AB pedals.

Bill H.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Aug 2003 10:48 am

Bengt - that's a very good idea. I actually play this solo twice, and switching to harmonics for one of them would be really cool. Thanks!

Bill - I'm not sure that the first string raise is the "4th most important" lever. I had it for years and never used it. When I removed it I didn't miss it (until just now

). I usually use a forward slant to get that note in harmonies, but that won't work in this "ringing" scenario.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 7 Aug 2003 10:53 am

Bengt, are the strings in the wrong order on your tabs?

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 7 Aug 2003 11:13 am

Tab is written the way I have always written it. But it shows only strings 10 thru 5, B D E F# G# B ( E G# Eb F# )
What might be confusing is that everything is played on open strings. numbers in < > show where to make harmonic w left finger. The Bsus and B chord (key=E)at the end in your original post can also be played as harmonics (open strings) on the 7th fret ( not shown in tab )

Bengt Erlandsen[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 07 August 2003 at 10:49 PM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 8 Aug 2003 2:07 am

Bobby Lee,

If you will, please, I stated that the 4th most important option included both #1 and #7. There is a distinction therein. That 7th string raise which produces a very necessary 7th chord, when used in combination with the A and B pedals has approximately as much potential in chord melodies, as any of the the melody chaser chords on the machine. Every day of the week, and ever week of the year, this change, ( 7th string 1/2 tone raise) is abandoned, and substituted by major chords, whih do not carry the melody lines. The most advantageous placement of the change is - LKV!!!

Bill H.

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 8 Aug 2003 8:34 am

I do raise my 7th string to G, Bill. I do it on the same lever that lowers my 2nd string to D.

Bengt - thanks for the explanation. I was so fixated on the high strings that the lower octave didn't occur to me. I so rarely chime those strings. Now I get it!

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 8 Aug 2003 8:46 am

Bobby, sorry for driftin away from the topic.

Bill, about the 1 & 7 F#-G.
Considering all the places one would use that lever:
Either by itself
or Together w E's-F
or Together w Apedal & E's-F
or Together w Apedal
or Together w Apedal & E's-Eb
or Together w Bpedal & E's-Eb
and almost forgot together w A+Bpedal
All those combinations tell me that
LKV is not the natural place to have it, RKL or RKR is where it has to be to unlock its potential together w the other levers.
Since LKV almost certain is the 5th knee lever there are other changes that belong there much more than 1&7 F#-G.
So please don't confuse those new to the steelguitar by saying <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The most advantageous placement of the change is - LKV!!!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> w 3 !!! at the end.

It will of course work as LKV but I cant see any reasons why it wont work better as RKL or RKR.

Bengt Erlandsen

And it is possible to mimic the sound of F#-G used in combination W A+B. Easiest is 2 frets down on strings 5 2 1 where the Eb-C# on string 2 is your A pedal workin opposite direction. The B pedal would be your F#-G to get that b7.

[This message was edited by Bengt Erlandsen on 08 August 2003 at 10:06 AM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 9 Aug 2003 8:52 am

Bill Hankey wrote:

Every day of the week, and ever week of the year, this change, ( 7th string 1/2 tone raise) is abandoned, and substituted by major chords, whih do not carry the melody lines.

Actually, the "modern" replacement popularized by Paul Franklin raises 1 and 7 a full step, and 2 a half step. The change on string 2 can be set up as a soft stop to feel the half-step raise on 1 and 7.

I don't have that lever, but I believe that it's an excellent way to extend the capabilities of the more traditional "G" lever.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/Hotb0b.gif" width="96 height="96">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (C6add9),
Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6),
Roland Handsonic, Line 6 Variax