Fret measuring question

[Lane Gray]

Say I decide to measure and mark my own frets.
A Sho-Bud is 24" nut to changer, but the neck starts almost exactly â…›" in, between the radius of the rollers and the thickness of the casting.
My math brain tells me that I should use a fret calculator set at 24, and just subtract â…›" from all nut-to-fret measurements, and that calculating from 23â…ž would have a 1/16" error at the octave and told me to bugger off when I tried to ponder other frets.
Am I thinking right or overthinking?

[Jon Light (deceased)]

......My math brain tells me that I should use a fret calculator set at 24, and just subtract ⅛" from all nut-to-fret measurements,......

As far as I'm concerned this is the correct procedure (and what I did with my Bud---well, I didn't make the fretboard but I installed one with this premise in mind). I forget if my board needed trimming or was already trimmed. Visually, the first fret looks off because it is indeed shorter looking for your stated reasons.

When I installed the board I marked the 12" spot via ruler and via harmonic node and made sure that to align the 12th fret to this.

[Chris Lucker]

Be active rather than passive. Why make the assumption that you have a true 24 inch scale to start with?

Take the opportunity to test with electronic tuner where the precise harmonic is - twelfth fret harmonic, and measure what the actual scale length is, and go from there.

Smarter folks on the Forum will surely give you a better way to precisely measure your scale.

Unless close enough is alright in your project. Bigsby fretboards are close enough, Don Davis had a triple neck made with no fretboards at all.

One of my first Sho-Buds had 25 1/2 inch scale Sho-Bud fretboards on it, but the guitar's scale was shortened to 24 1/4 inches.

[Lane Gray]

Good thinking, Chris. My local luthier and I did measure it. From crown of roller to crown of finger is within 1/32 of 24.000" (measured with tape with 1/16 demarcation: greater precision might have come from other means, but that seems close enough)
He also printed out the numbers from the Stew Mac calculator.

[Chris Lucker]

One thirty second of an inch. That is interesting. I am glad you shared the measurement because i have always wondered how close some manufactures got.

That certainly seems close enough to me.

[Lane Gray]

I figured one half of one demarcation was about all I'd attest to.

[Jerry Jones]

Here's a quick way to judge your fret layout accuracy... new guitars or old.

Fret scale similar distances for 24.00" length

fret 12 ⟶ 1 .....same as..... fret 16 ⟶ 03 = .005 diff
fret 12 ⟶ 4 .....same as..... fret 25 ⟶ 11 = .002 diff
fret 12 ⟶ 5 .....same as..... fret 22 ⟶ 11 = .001 diff
fret 12 ⟶ 6 .....same as..... fret 23 ⟶ 13 = .001 diff

[Michael Maddex]

Lane, I would make a full-size fret board template out of heavy paper, cardboard or other suitable material for the 24" scale and then trim either end as needed. You can then transfer the dimensions and other info to the guitar as you proceed. My $0.02 only.

[chris ivey]

sounds like a good idea. 'close enough' is good for me. i don't think i rely on the fretboard that much.
i.e. i think that note is somewhere about here!

[Donny Hinson]

Not only that, but you should measure from the zenith or crown of the changer to that of the nut rollers, and that will give your true scale length. Then choose an appropriate (read: as close as you can get) fretboard, and just make sure the 12th fret is under the exact center of the string. Placing a fretboard should always be done with the 12th fret-center method, as it minimizes any error between the fretboard layout and the true scale-length.

[Rick Barnhart]

Fred Justice taught me that the fret markers get you in the right neighborhood, but you gotta find the address with your ears.

[Lane Gray]

Right, but I find no markings at all confusing, the lines serving as reminders of which pockets are there for me. When the neck is bare, I spend too much time I n "where am I and what can I do here?"

[Glenn Uhler]

Chris and Jerry are on the right track. Put a piece of blue masking tape on the guitar where the fingerboard will be and locate and mark the 12th fret harmonic. Obviously, this is where the 12th fret goes. Locate the 24th fret harmonic and mark that. Locate the 5th fret and 7th fret harmonics and mark them. If all these marks line up with your new fretboard, you're good to install the board.

[Lane Gray]

I'm not installing a fretboard (except temporarily), I'm putting/creating frets on a neck.

[Glenn Uhler]

Sorry I missed the lack of a fretboard. Locate the 12th fret as accurately as possible and measure. If it's 12.00" from either end, then the scale is exactly 24.00" If the 12th fret is 12.1" or so, then the scale is a little longer. You don't need any compensation on the strings of a steel, because you are not pulling them down like on a 6 string.

You still need to use a fret calculator program to find the actual fret locations. Some of the mail order tool companies used to sell an 18" or 24" vernier caliper pretty inexpensively that can be used to locate fret positions very accurately. After calculating the positions, measure from the nut end only for each fret.

[richard burton]

Instead of using an online calculator, do the maths yourself, for experience.

Divide the scale length by 1.059463094, and this will give you the distance from the centre of the changer to the first fret.
Divide that measurement by 1.059etc to give you the distance from the changer to the second fret, and so on.....

[Storm Rosson]

I noticed on my old Super-Pro the headstock/nut has 1/4" inset where the neck meets the nut. I"m hazarding a guess that this was to offer a way to position the fretboard accurately by sliding it up under the nut with a minimum of hassle. I think it could be used to slightly change the parallax from viewing the fret and bar at an angle, if there's a need to ,like maybe having guitars with slightly different string-to-fretboard height....Stormy

[Jerry Jones]

Once you've determined your fret scale length and marked the half-way, 12th fret position, best to measure your fret locations back toward the nut for frets 1 - 11 and forward toward the bridge for frets 13 - 25..... always using fret 12 as your reference point. Just charge up your calculator to determine those figures.... you'll be fine.

[Ron Pruter]

Lane,
Great discussion but why are you going through all this hassle instead of buying a fretboard?

[Lane Gray]

Because the neck has purty Birdseye maple, and I think it a shame to hide it under vinyl or metal.
Wanna show the pretty.

[Rick Barnhart]

Lane, you oughta touch base with Tom Pettingill, he's got some excellent ideas for inlayed fret markers, and a pretty cool method for layin out the spacing, too.

[Bent Romnes]

Lane, I use a sign printing shop to make my fretboards. I have seen where they get within .005" for the fret lines. This is super IMO. Then, with the shaft of a q-tip i find the 12th fret harmonic and make a mark on a piece of tape. Then I line up he 12th fret line on fretboard with this pencil line and cut off the keyhead end of the fretboard to make lines line up exactly. The end result sounds fine to everybody

[Lane Gray]

That's how to do it. And how I'll mount the temporary fretboard. I'm almost definitely gonna lay down "frets" on the wood.

[Ron Pruter]

Lane,
It does sound like it will look nice. Please post pix when done. RP

[Alan Brookes]

I have an Excel Spreadsheet that I put together which instantly calculates the position of the frets. All you have to do is just drop in the scale length. It works for any string instrument and I use it for all the instruments I build. If anyone wants a copy just email me at afbrookes@aol.com.