Is it me or the guitar?

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 30 Sep 2013 10:48 am

I'm attempting to learn the pedal steel on an old beginners model Mark 1 guitar from the 70's. I've done quite a bit of work on the guitar, and have it tuned and the pedals making the correct changes. I am however having a lot of problems with getting consistent notes with pedals A and B down. They feel "spongy" for lack of a better term and frequently one or the other doesn't hit the proper note without a real effort to make sure they both are down all the way. This guitar basically has the same pull / release mechanism as the Sho Bud Maverick, (coathanger material on the rods), and this one has plastic pedals. Is this something I'm just going to have to work on, or is it just characteristic of this type guitar? I've never had the opportunity of playing a non student modern pedal steel, btw.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Sep 2013 11:49 am

The stops of the pedal travel should occur at the same time the fingers hit the body.
Of course the plastic pedals might have something to do with it.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 30 Sep 2013 11:54 am

Lane Gray wrote:The stops of the pedal travel should occur at the same time the fingers hit the body.
Of course the plastic pedals might have something to do with it.

I don't think this has pedal stops as such.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 30 Sep 2013 11:56 am

your steel is a very rudimentary entry level machine. many limitationas and weaknesses. learn what you can from it and move on to a better quality steel. you won't really be able to upgrade that one to any degree.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 30 Sep 2013 1:02 pm

In that case, I'd jigger things around, so that the pedal action starts higher up, and both strings hit cabinet at the same time.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 30 Sep 2013 1:16 pm

Lane Gray wrote:In that case, I'd jigger things around, so that the pedal action starts higher up, and both strings hit cabinet at the same time.

I'll give that a try. And, yep, I realize what it is, but was all I could afford, and a good fixer up project.

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 30 Sep 2013 1:35 pm

Chris is correct. I didn't want to post this when you were enjoying working on it but it is a horrible instrument. That said, I learned on it and you can as well. Learn what you can and be prepared for a mega thrill when you move up.

Probably the worst part, that I can remember, has to do with the high string tension which is responsible for the spongy pedals. Just keep at it and don't expect much from the guitar , other than learning to play, which makes it all worth while

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 30 Sep 2013 2:09 pm

my first steel was a 'don't know' brand that was really funky.....but only $75!!
it got me hooked.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 30 Sep 2013 3:16 pm

Probably the worst part, that I can remember, has to do with the high string tension which is responsible for the spongy pedals. Just keep at it and don't expect much from the guitar , other than learning to play, which makes it all worth while[/quote]

Yeah, I've actually considering just converting it to an 8 string C6 console. I enjoy C6 on my lap steels and I think this would work fairly well for that.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Sep 2013 5:41 pm

I am however having a lot of problems with getting consistent notes with pedals A and B down.

This was the lowest price pedal guitar ever sold, and most all were "kit builts", so the quality is pretty low and sketchy. The one suggestion I can give is to use only enough pressure to activate the strings to their stops. Any extra pressure will start bending and wearing things that simply weren't designed to last very long to start with.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 30 Sep 2013 8:57 pm

Raising the pedals did help a little.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 1 Oct 2013 6:24 am

I am also going to repair a problem that is causing the rollers on the "bridge" end of the guitar to not sit flush with the cabinet, which may help.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 1 Oct 2013 11:26 am

As above, horrible instrument. Sorry.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 1 Oct 2013 1:21 pm

Yep, but at least that one can be fixed fairly easily.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 1 Oct 2013 2:04 pm

Jim Williams wrote:Probably the worst part, that I can remember, has to do with the high string tension... I've actually considering just converting it to an 8 string C6 console.

Please be very careful with that. The higher tension of the heavier C6 strings, combined with the precarious condition of its mounting as pictured, may just launch that changer into orbit. Wear safety glasses, a helmet, and keep women, children, and small pets at bay!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 1 Oct 2013 2:18 pm

jim..on that tilted changer problem, i'd try loosening the strings all the way and pulling those screws out. then get some white glue and new screws and put the glue with some toothpick pieces in the hole. let it sit awhile then put the new screws into the changer blocks and snug them down and let it sit flush for a day. then tighten your strings back up.
i'm assuming that they are wood screws that go into the body.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 1 Oct 2013 2:22 pm

I'd put Jnuts in there under the leg blocks, and use machine screws

Mike Wheeler · Post by **Mike Wheeler** » 1 Oct 2013 4:09 pm

I agree with Lane. That picture makes me nervous just looking at it. And would explain tuning problems.

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 1 Oct 2013 4:16 pm

And regarding the high string tension, either put on lighter strings or tune down.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 2 Oct 2013 7:30 am

Thanks for the advice and warnings guys. I put some new, longer screws in last night, pulled it down and re-tuned, but I doubt it will hold. The worst problem is that the front of those brackets barely sit on the lip of the other side of the cutout and the strings pulled the front down into the wood, so basically the front is sitting on thin air. As a possible solution, I have bought some metal pieces that I am going to put under the changer brackets which will distribute the weight more, and land on more wood on the other side. They are fairly thin (maybe 1/16") but rigid, and I don't think they will interfere on the working of the changer considering the amount of slop inherent to this type setup anyway. I'm sure I'll have to retune the low stops and maybe re-adjust the rods a bit. I've also bought some longer screws, as there is plenty of wood to go in deeper. If this fails, I guess I will have to resort to drilling and putting machine screws in. The reason I haven't already done that is that these screws are going to come out underneath the blocks that the leg brackets are mounted on and may even interfere with one of the leg mounting screws, or be close enough for one of the holes to crack the wood. I'm convinced that there wasn't a design engineer within 150 miles when this thing was designed. I'm going to do this and try the original tuning one more time before resorting to re-purposing it to a non pedal setup. And if it is playable after that, I will probably lower the string gauges next time I restring it as well.

Bill Howard · Post by **Bill Howard** » 2 Oct 2013 7:31 am

I would first (and quickly) release string tension right away before it pops and tears something up or injures you.. a LOT of tension on those strings.. a LOT.
Put a strut or and a washer w nut and bolt on the bottom the lighter gauge strings are a REAL good idea use light e 9 strings,I would try running a strut across the bottom of the guitar end to end(piece of all thread?) if possible until you can get a little better axe I mean not exactly kosher but it will keep it together..good luck..

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 2 Oct 2013 7:43 am

Anyone know of a specific lighter gauge set of strings or what the appropriate gauges would be if I buy individual strings. Currently have a standard set of GHS strings on it....013 - .036. I don't see many options in gauges of pre packaged sets. I'm considering a custom set, maybe .011 .014 .010 .013 .016 .018 .024 .028 .032 .036. Does this sound reasonable, and will it lower tension significantly?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Oct 2013 8:17 am

Bill, washers and nuts are out of the question: The leg brackets sit there.
Jim, seriously: J-nuts and machine screws.
Google is letting me down, but there's a variant of j nut meant for wood: it'll snug down flush.

Jim Williams · Post by **Jim Williams** » 2 Oct 2013 8:24 am

Lane Gray wrote:Bill, washers and nuts are out of the question: The leg brackets sit there.
Jim, seriously: J-nuts and machine screws.
Google is letting me down, but there's a variant of j nut meant for wood: it'll snug down flush.

I wasn't familiar with J nuts but I looked them up. I don't quite understand how they would be used here though...can you explain?

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 2 Oct 2013 8:38 am

Oops. Not J nut. T nut
www.efc-intl.com/products/self-retainin ... teners.htm

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