The SIGNIFICANCE of RESISTING Change

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 9 Jul 2003 9:17 am

Oh! Now I get it. He's saying that Lloyd Green is handicapped as a player! Is that right? Hmmm...

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 9 Jul 2003 9:40 am

I accept most of the blame for this thread continuing:

...my omission; ___on my first reply, I should have diagnosed: acute bovine diarrhea and prescribed immediately, Imodium AD.

Even Montezuma's revenge, does not aptly apply to this "rape" of the English language; ___hard to believe, but it's too "binding".

Now, and I use the term "loosely", the "running bull" still seems a more accurately descriptive term for this dehydrating and degenerating thread.

Rick

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 9 Jul 2003 10:18 am

Well. In the shadow of the burgeoning suppositon, I think you're a little off base thinking that I would or could assume the obligation, implied or otherwise to "weigh out your concept in it's entirety". I'm not sure that capability exists here in Oregon. Possibly the whole planet.

I think you're overestimating me. Though I am flattered..

I never read your original post.....

I was just guessing.

How'd I do?

EJL[This message was edited by Eric West on 09 July 2003 at 01:06 PM.]

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 9 Jul 2003 11:08 am

There's over 100 posts(not including Hankey's) that COMPLETELY miss the point. Ol'
Bill is a free-form, stream-of-consciousness
POET.
"...To me the words are nice the way they sound.
I like to hear them best that way,
It doesn't matter what they mean..."
James Taylor
For example, go back and re-read the Hankster's post on "Opting for Momentum." A
meaningless phrase, but Billy has already decided that it will be the title of his next post! The mind of a poet at work.
A lot of you guys have attempted to compete with Bill's verbosity, wih displays of your OWN linguistic capabilities. But you fall short. Why? Because, in seeking to achieve bil's level of bombastic display, you forget one thing---BILL AIN'T TRYIN' TO MAKE SENSE.
He's just writing free verse, and doing a doggone good job at it. Keep up the good work, Bill.

"And some people say I'm a poet."
Bob Dylan

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 9 Jul 2003 12:18 pm

James Joyce must have rolled over in his grave since the posting of this thread; while muttering to himself, "I should have used the first manuscript to "Finnegans Wake" and never made a single correction.

Poetic/prose licenses are handed out like the California Dept. of Motor Vehicles issueing driver's permits.

Some in this very thread should be fined for P.U.I., "posting under the influence".

Rick

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 9 Jul 2003 12:40 pm

Jim: Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to recall that LG told me once upon a time, that he used to get the D# by getting it on the second string when he needed it and just a BH has suggested it be done. I don't know what significance that may have here but there it is.

I am reminded now of something that Michael Johnstone once said:

The usual transparent effluvia that permeates the aural labyrinth !

Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 09 July 2003 at 01:42 PM.]

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 9 Jul 2003 1:36 pm

I think Bill H. is right. I am not sure about what, but nevertheless right. Anyone who can lay it on as thick and deep as this has to be right about something...but this may not be it....or is it ...who knows. Does Bill even know..I am not sure anymore.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 9 Jul 2003 2:31 pm

F. M.,

As always, it's wise to turn to the most capable professionals, to resolve various problems, that plague our everyday lives. I bless the day that Lloyd Green entered the world of steel guitar. Keep in mind that his capabilities are so vast, that he is unapproachable by lay persons, who are in the developmental stages of mastering the steel guitar. No matter how well a gifted player toils over the steel, Lloyd's hands will create the sounds that have long been recognized as the ultimate dream.
Lloyd is credited as the originator of the E to F change. It was first heard on Tammy's D-I-V-O-R-C-E recording. I don't have a clue as to why famed steel guitarists, chose to exclude the E to D# change. I do know however, that an unstable changer could very well discourage a meticulous artist, from persisting, and trying to achieve the required 3 half step raises. With the arrival of accurate changer features, it is conceivable that old habits are hard to break.

Bill H.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 10 Jul 2003 12:14 am

"The Significance Of Resisting Change" was intended to be a subtle approach to moving closer to the giant "hub" of the steel guitar industry. Many questions have gone unanswered concerning radical differences, in the approach of methodolgy, relating to the steel guitar. I find that becoming aware of the slightest hint of authoritarianism, smacks of the ball and chain, in terms of progressing competitively. Beyond the total ignorance that possessed our first attempts to play pedal steel, lies the rewards of constant dedication. The prerequsites which provide advancements, by means of progressing, includes the ability to recognize "stumbling blocks" found in the courses of learning.

Bill H.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 10 Jul 2003 7:41 am

"The Significance Of Resisting Change" was intended to be a subtle approach to moving closer to the giant "hub" of the steel guitar industry.

Bill, it's easy for you to attempt to put this thread behind you; but b0b's going to need a front-loader to clean up your droppings.

But, before you pull that big handle and flush this:

Seriously, would you kindly expound on your metaphor, giant "hub" of the steel guitar industry?

Rick

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Jul 2003 8:01 am

Being from the "era" which reflects on non pedal players holding back the advancement
of steel guitar,If it were not for those players,YOU would have little or NO roots to go on.

You of all people to make a statement such as that.I have heard non pedal players of those days you make reference to who could play up to the standards of todays pedal players pedals or no pedals..ever hear of
Tom Morrell?? did he hold back the advancement of steel guitar?? Or does he just sound great by accident??If so many should have an accident like that.

There is no question that your instrument of choice and your ability is with pedal guitars and thats fine,just DONT make statements like that they dont fit someone like you and frankly I am suprised at you.

How many pedal players can match the tone and feeling of players of that time era?.

Did you forget the word "Pioneers"? Or does that mean nothing to you. This is your quote
.............................................

Players of the '50s and '60s who resisted pedals and stayed with non-pedal also held themselves and the steel guitar back.

That may be your opinion and you are entitled
to it,but most players today with the exception of those we all know "sound the same" and to quote a well known non pedal player,,,"put em all in one room and you cant hear the difference".

And YOU of all people...

no need to reply, Its a done deal.
This thread is becoming "thread bare" it needs new fabric and a patch,,,get a tailor.

Its WORN OUT.
[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 10 July 2003 at 09:07 AM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 10 Jul 2003 9:34 am

Hi Jody,

I agree with you. I was just summarizing what I think Bill is trying to say in this post. Like I said earlier, I don't necessarily agree with it.

Music is an expression of emotion. Adding pedals and levers to a steel guitar makes it more convenient to get certain chords, voicings, licks, etc... but pedals and levers are not silver bullets for those who are looking for a pro sound. Pro sound is in the head and in the hands of the player. A great musician will find a way to express himself on any instrument, any tuning. Lloyd Green does not need an E to D# knee lever. Jerry Byrd does not need pedals. We are all drawn into their music, and the emotion that draws us in has little to do with a knee lever.

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 10 July 2003 at 10:40 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 10 Jul 2003 1:08 pm

Jody C.,

Specificity is very important to those who have found this thread to feature matters of interest. You really haven't addressed anyone by name, while taking up the defense of the non-pedal steel. You're not quoting me, nor will you ever be able to do so, on matters relating to the school of bar slanting. I have the ability to read into the sounds that bar slanting can produce. My interest lies for the most part, in the mechanics of pedals and knee levers. I love the harmonics, as well as the closer to perfect tuning, that can be attained on "straight" steel. Bob Gary was the man in the white shirt, back in the '60's. Bob played non-pedal steel in and around the Boston, Ma. area.
At that time, I played lead guitar, and had a lot of fun jamming with Bob. A friend introduced me to the pedal steel about that time, and from there, I went on to "woodshedding". I have a world of respect for players from any era, if it involves the steel guitar.
Please know that our respect for you Jody, will never change for any reason. Anything in the wind that hints of making our admiration for you unclear is disturbing.

Bill H.
[This message was edited by Bill Hankey on 10 July 2003 at 04:42 PM.]

Harold Dye · Post by **Harold Dye** » 10 Jul 2003 3:14 pm

Never have so many said so much about so little.

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Jul 2003 4:18 pm

Quote Doug B.Players of the '50s and '60s who resisted pedals and stayed with non-pedal also held themselves and the steel guitar back.

And the only thing that makes sense to me is
Harold Dye's post...Never have so many said so much about so little.

What a waste of time and to think I contributed to this?? I should know better.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 10 Jul 2003 5:02 pm

Me too Jody

Never again will I try to translate what someone else is trying to say. This post is like falling into a black hole with no way out! I give up.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 10 Jul 2003 5:13 pm

.... and it was just getting interesting.....

EJL

Larry Miller · Post by **Larry Miller** » 10 Jul 2003 5:26 pm

It Won't Be Long......

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Jul 2003 5:39 pm

I have nothing but respect for Bill Hankey.

My comments were based on my feelings and not meant as a personal attack on Bill.

Regardless of Bill's ideas which may or may not satisfy some,I think he is a sincere man
and express'es how he feels and he is entitled to that.

I have no hard feelings Bill. And I am sorry if I offended you, and you as well Doug.

I think you are all cool guys..

But not as

as I

only kidding..

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 10 Jul 2003 5:41 pm

Larry thats what the Rabbi said to a friend
of mine

It Won't Be Long......

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 10 Jul 2003 5:48 pm

I've noticed a few responses concerning change, and it's necessity. They hint that change is good, and inevitable as well, and that resistance to change produces stagnation. My own view is is slightly different, inasmuch as I see change and tradition as the two pillars that support music, and most other things as well. It is change that moves and improves us, but it is tradition that sustains us. You have to have both to have both progress and substance.

A good analogy might be the house where you live. "Change" would be the improvements you make, and the adornments you add to make it more practical, personal, and fashionable. "Tradition" would be the foundation and framework of that house. It both sets boundaries, and supports all the changes and improvements that inevitably will come.

Try as you might, you can't stop change, and you likewise shouldn't ignore tradition. To do so would be to invite the whole shebang come tumbling down someday.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 10 Jul 2003 6:40 pm

I started playing non-pedal steel in 1948, and around 1953 I began the long journey on pedal-steel. Today I still play both. Perhaps I don't play well, but; I consider myself equal on either one! Ask Jody Carver if I have been doing myself an injustice by gaining knowledge on both? He's heard me on both! I couldn't honestly tell you which style I like best, but; I have a pretty good idea, by now!

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“Big John” wknsg®
Fender, T–8 Custom
Franklin, D–10 w/9 & 8
Goodrich, Match Box
Peavey, Classic 50 – 212
Enhancer, E–LG
Ibanez, AD–9 http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels

[This message was edited by John Bechtel on 10 July 2003 at 07:56 PM.]

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 11 Jul 2003 12:04 am

the only permanent force in the Universe is Change
Hey ya'got any to spare ?

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Steel what?

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 11 Jul 2003 6:17 am

CrowBear: Here in GA/USA, we have a lottery game called The Change Game. Match two letters and 4 numbers with your spare change and they'll give you some change. Someone got $130,000,000.00 the other night playing with a Big Ball !!

Jody: Leave the fretting to FRETTS !! It's so good to see you posting and getting in the midst of us that a grain a salt might be all we would need and besides, I think everyone here is very open minded and polite. Just having you and Bill in the same thread is a special treat because you both have the gift of making our minds perk up and become more alert. No problem with that !!

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in JULY !!

Regards, Paul[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 11 July 2003 at 07:24 AM.]

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 11 Jul 2003 8:55 am

Paul G.,

Thanks for fanning the tiny sparks of this thread. I now have a new flame glowing, as my mind traces back, in search of subject matters that were touched upon briefly, leaving behind unanswered inquiries. I am here to persist, hoping that a sudden burst of recall, will appear on this thread, thereby providing the information I am seeking. Open discussions can easily derive from various opinions relating to the E to D# change. If you could imagine that the change would be removed from your steel permanently, unless you spoke out in its defense, would you rush the podium, after struggling to fill an important gig, minus the lowering modification of the 4th string?

Bill H.