Would it be wrong to (playing without picks)

Eric Myers · Post by **Eric Myers** » 19 Jun 2003 5:14 am

just play without thumbpicks? I know this is the kind of thing that is a personal decision, but since I'm just starting out on the steel I'd like to know if anyones been down this road before. Ive played six string guitar for 25 years and can pretty much play with my eyes closed, and I play them about 50% with no picks, electric and acoustic, but the thumbpicks and fingerpicks on the steel really seem to be a problem - its like Im not feeling the guitar under me almost - I tried without them and it really felt good and my touch came back! Also, being so new and clueless can someone clue me into why there is such a disparagy in bar prices and such - what is the differences and advantages? Ok thanks for now
Eric[This message was edited by Eric Myers on 19 June 2003 at 07:23 AM.]

Tony LaCroix · Post by **Tony LaCroix** » 19 Jun 2003 5:37 am

Hi Eric, I just started playing steel about a month ago and am also an experienced 6-stringer. I had the same finger pick concerns as you! I thought it would take FOREVER to get used to them. Nope. They started to feel normal after about 5 hours of playing. Make sure they're on tight and always use the same picks on the same fingers. You just can't get a good attack without em.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 19 Jun 2003 6:07 am

I can't imagine anyone playing the steel guitar without a thumb pick. I play a lot of three string grips and also like to pick up a low bass note whenever I can. I realize that some players use three finger picks but I never learned that way and don't intend to change now.
Erv[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 19 June 2003 at 07:08 AM.]

David Cobb · Post by **David Cobb** » 19 Jun 2003 6:41 am

Keep trying different thumb picks until you find something you like. Personally, I have a problem with the big wide faced thumbpicks favored by many steel players, so I use a smaller Gibson? thumbpick. As for bars, you can have a perfectly usable stainless bar for a little money or spend a few dollars more for a "Cadillac" like the chromed BJS. Anything beyond that, you're paying "boutique" prices.IMHO

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 19 Jun 2003 6:56 am

Hi Eric,

I started pedal steel about a year ago after years on guitar and about 2 years on lap steel. I've stuck with picks and while a few folks disagree, I find that 1) attack/tone and 2) the narrow string spacing on PSG really make the picks worthwhile.

I occasionally practice diddies without picks and while more comfortable, I find that I don't cleanly pick the notes or really get "into" the string...

Plus, it might be easier to learn with picks and then ditch them down the road if you want to, rather than learning and getting comfortable without picks and being stuck with that sound...

Good luck!

Nicholas Dedring · Post by **Nicholas Dedring** » 19 Jun 2003 8:40 am

I messed around with a lapsteel for a couple of years, and didn't use any picks. The string spacing was pretty wide, and it was easy to get the strings I wanted. The pedal steel I got just had a much tighter spacing of strings on it, that made it awkward to grab the strings. If that part doesn't bother you (it did bother me), just try and see how the sound suits you without them. If the sound doesn't satisfy you, then just give it time... I found it got easier and easier to live with the thumb and fingerpicks, even though they are not comfortable. Beyond the precision issue, getting my fat digits in between the strings, there is a tonal quality to the attack, and a consistency to the attack, that you get with the picks on. Either you want it, or you don't... I did, and I think the callouses on my cuticles are growing, and making it easier to deal with. Long story short? Try it both ways, if the sound is good, then do what makes you happy... otherwise put up with the temporary discomfort.

Shaan Shirazi · Post by **Shaan Shirazi** » 19 Jun 2003 9:23 am

Since all the Austin newbies chimed in I thought I would too.

I've used the same finger picks since the day I started. I probably spent 20 minutes shaping them just right for my fingers and although I have others that are OK, it doesn't feel quite right unless I have those on. I'm dreading the day I lose one or have to replace them.

On the other hand, my buddy Gary has never used finger picks or a thumbpick and he has great tone and right hand technique so I guess it can be done.

Shaan

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The Pickin' Paniolo

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 19 Jun 2003 9:37 am

It was certainly just one time, but when I met him in BC's String Duster band in 78 Sid Hudson played with a flat pick and his bare fingers. Whether he did after that I dunno.

Sounded fine to me.

EJL

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 19 Jun 2003 11:03 am

A most important question: what are your aspirations with steel? Are you determined to 'do it your own way', create a personal sound, do a singer/songwriter, coffee house eclectic thing, et al? Are you wanting to be a steel player in a country band? Is there a bunch of stuff you hear Buddy and Lloyd do that you really would like to try to emulate?

You will have several strikes against you trying to do classic steel stuff without picks---but it's not impossible. If you love the idea of forging your own style, there's nothing like caressing the string with a nekkid finger.

A bad reason to not use picks is because they are uncomfortable. Trust everyone that tells you this (including me)---it will get more comfortable in not all that much time.

A good reason to not use picks is because you tried both ways and decided that this way was the right way for you.

Pat Burns · Post by **Pat Burns** » 19 Jun 2003 12:37 pm

...for what it's worth, I wouldn't think of playing E-9 without thumb and 3 finger picks, but on C-6 I'm king of liking just the thumbpick and ring finger pick, leaving off the index and middle finger picks...to me the thumbpick is mandatory not just for tone and attack, but for making moves that I can't make without the pick, because my thumb would just brush the string or miss it altogether...a "swing and a miss"...

Bill Moore · Post by **Bill Moore** » 19 Jun 2003 1:45 pm

Eric, there's lots of opinions on this subject, here's mine: get some Jeff Newman fingerpicks, and a Herco Blue thumb pick. Then learn to block in the style that Jeff teaches. His picks are made perfectly for this blocking method. They are bent correctly and stiff. The Herco pick is narrower and flexible, which gives a good feel when picking. To me, the wide, stiff thumbpicks don't feel as good. The right picks and good technique make it easier. Good luck.

[This message was edited by Bill Moore on 19 June 2003 at 03:29 PM.]

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 19 Jun 2003 2:32 pm

I've always cut my thumb picks down to a very small tip. It just works better for me that way. I can play without fingerpicks, but it's hard for me to get enough volume without a thumb pick.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
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Jeff A. Smith · Post by **Jeff A. Smith** » 19 Jun 2003 10:28 pm

I like Dunlop fingerpicks, in large part because the parts that make contact with the fingers flare out and provide more surface area -- less "pinch." I also spent a lot of time bending them perfectly, with needle-nosed pliers, into kind of a cone shape. As long as you bend the side closest to the strings so that it is a little over the other, there won't be any problems catching a string in the pick.

Doing it this way has made wearing picks very comfortable for me.

Like someone else's experience above, I just knew I needed picks to get the sound I wanted, so I stuck with it.

I'm also a long-time guitar player, who had started to sometimes use the style of flatpick and two bare fingers, besides my normal flatpick-alone style. I think picking may be one area where there is an unconscious bleed through from one part of the technical memory into the other. I believe that after having played steel for awhile, I'm using my fingers more on guitar without really thinking about it. The musical ideas which occur to me on guitar have also been influenced by my playing and understanding steel. It's a whole different tradition and way of thinking to learn from; well worth the time IMO, even just from the standpoint of what's good for your guitar playing.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 20 Jun 2003 2:16 am

You don't have to decide anything right away, but I think you'll eventually come to use a thumbpick at least to balance the volume. It's hard to dig your nude thumb in between the narrow string spacing. I use fingerpicks about half the time, and nude the rest depending on what sound I want. Four thumbpicks you should check out if you can are the Herco blue, the Dunlop, the John Pearse, and Jeff Newman's. I still switch around to ease the wear on my cuticle, it only takes a few minutes to get used to any of them.

SveinungL · Post by **SveinungL** » 20 Jun 2003 3:53 am

I started out about 10 years ago without picks. The reason was because I had been playing a lot of classical guitar (nylon strings) with my fingernails. This worked ok for steel as well, but I didn't like the angle of my hand towards the strings. The thumb pointed down to the strings instead of lying more paralell to the strings.

This last thing is what you get with a thumb pick since the pick points downwards instead of the nail pointing straight forward.

For a while I played with just a thumbpick and by using the nails of the other fingers. Lots of playing wore the nails down, (because of the tension in the strings) so I finally switched to fingerpicks also.

Now it feels right to play with picks even though it took a month or so to get used to them.

Tonewise I think it sounded just as good with nails....in my ears that was....[This message was edited by SveinungL on 20 June 2003 at 04:55 AM.]

Nathan Delacretaz · Post by **Nathan Delacretaz** » 20 Jun 2003 4:52 am

Bobby Lee mentioned trimming his picks down to a small tip - that reminds me of these cool Fred Kelly "speed picks" I found at a music store. I originally got them because they are stiff and snug on my bony fingers, but now I use them all the time. If a bulky, fat tip on the thumbpick is a problem for you, check these out...

*in case my link above craters*, the site is: http://www.fredkellyspicks.com

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 21 Jun 2003 5:55 am

Filing the tip of a thumbpick short helps a lot if you use the side of your thumb to block, as advocated by Joe Wright. I think the way you block has a lot to do with your choice of fingerpicks and how you bend them, too.

Scott Henderson · Post by **Scott Henderson** » 21 Jun 2003 6:58 am

Eric,
I use the herco bugablue picks like in the picture above. can't imagine not using picks. tone and volume would go to pot besides I might break a nail!!!!!!!hahahha.
Are we going to get together soon????
GET USED TO THE PICKS BUT ALWAYS TAKE THEM OFF BEFORE YOU PICK YOUR NOSE OOOOWWWWWW!!!

Eric Myers · Post by **Eric Myers** » 21 Jun 2003 8:53 am

Are we going to get together soon????
i dont know - checked your hotmail in the last two weeks or so? hahahaha just say the word for july sometime after the weekend of the 4th - but by then I might be playng standing on my head or something!

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Jun 2003 2:58 pm

No, it's not wrong. Unpopular...maybe, uncommon...definitely, but not "wrong". As long as you and somebody else likes it, that's all that matters.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 21 Jun 2003 3:23 pm

What Donny said! It is not wrong!
Please your self first. There are some great players that use no picks.

My personal experience is all I can really comment on. When I am working on chords, or slow song harmony, I often play with no picks. Coming from a 6 string for many years, I can play lots of single note melodies and chord strums with a flat pick, and my mid and ring finger.(shhh)

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Stringmaster T8, Benoit 8, National Tricone

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 21 Jun 2003 4:45 pm

Eric, to answer your question. Yes, it is wrong. Morally, spiritiually, and as soon as I take my rightful place as ruler of the world, legally.

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Roses are red.
Violets are blue.
I'm schizophrenic,
and so am I

Jeff Coffell · Post by **Jeff Coffell** » 22 Jun 2003 11:19 am

I am also an experienced 6 string player that started playing steel about 2 years ago. I had that same question so I went to the KING OF STEEL GUITAR, E himself. He told me he played without any picks for a while and it was a personal choice for anyone. From what I got from his e-mail was that you could get tone and execution from no picks if you want it and practice it that way.

Who better to answer a ? like this than BUDDY EMMONS? I stopped asking after his reply.

I figured this was the answer from the highest power of the Steel Guitar.

I've since been playing with thumb and finger picks if anyone is interested in the final choice. It was an execution thing with me. I am still a very green player but am hanging in there and trying and enjoying all of it.

Jeff "PLUMB COUNTRY" Coffell[This message was edited by Jeff Coffell on 22 June 2003 at 12:20 PM.][This message was edited by Jeff Coffell on 22 June 2003 at 12:21 PM.]

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 22 Jun 2003 12:48 pm

Ok, Mike.

Eric, do what works for you and gets you the sound you want.

I play 6-string and I double on steel. On our last gig I put down my guitar and quickly jumped behind the steel while the singer was introducing the song, and... horror of horrors... my picks weren't where I thought I had left them. The singer called the cue, and there was nothing to do but count it off, picks or no picks. I kicked it off and played the tune, which had a steel intro., with just the flesh of my fingertips (which is what I use to play finger-style on my Strat). I didn't play any better or worse than usual, and it sounded fine. So... I'll keep using picks, but I won't panic the next time I misplace them on the bandstand!

Dr. Hugh Jeffreys · Post by **Dr. Hugh Jeffreys** » 22 Jun 2003 3:34 pm

Having played w/o fingerpicks for over 20 years, when I listen to my recordings, I can't tell when I go from bare fingers to the thumbpick unless I recall what's going on with what I did. Volume is directly proportional to velocity: the force with which the string is plucked. Less force is required with the thumbpick; also when going from less dense strings to more dense ones (ie, wound strings) more force (higher velocity) is required. HJ