2nd String Lower Question

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 12 Aug 2013 7:24 pm

This may seem like a dumb question. The copedent on my Jackson has the 2nd String lower listed as lowering the D# as D/C#. So... does this mean that there should be a noticeable half-stop at D? And then a subsequent full stop at C#? Or does it mean that I have a choice to tune the full stop to D or C#?

I mean... I can get that D but it seems that there is no noticeable half stop... I've got to do it by ear which is ok when just noodling around but am afraid it might be hard to hit in a gig situation when the guitar player is blasting behind me out of a Fender Twin that "has to be loud" to get that "tone"... if you know what I mean?

Carl Kilmer · Post by **Carl Kilmer** » 12 Aug 2013 7:54 pm

You should be able to feel the D stop at the point
where the 9th string will start to lower. It won't
be a hard stop, but you do need to feel it, or it'll
drive you nuts. It always takes some time to get
used to feeling the half stop, and some will add a
spring to the bellcrank to give it a tighter feel.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 12 Aug 2013 10:56 pm

Try feeling it with your hand on the lever, to convince yourself it's there. Then spend a bunch of time trying to feel it with your leg. I'm still hoping it'll be easy some day.

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 13 Aug 2013 5:38 am

Yeah... I sat down after I thought about for a while. It's there but it is very subtle and has a bit of bounce to it. It's right there before the 9th string pull begins but it's still pretty easy to over do it. Guess I'll just have to practice and program that baby in. My wife is going to love hearing me play that one lick over and over. Probably should learn a couple more with that half step lower.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 13 Aug 2013 6:27 am

I'd recommend adding a mechanical half stop. They have a positive and (usually) firmer feel, and you can control just how stiff.

Peter Freiberger · Post by **Peter Freiberger** » 13 Aug 2013 7:09 am

If your Jackson has adjustable lower return springs you could try cranking up the one for string nine to make a better feel stop for D on string 2.

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 13 Aug 2013 8:29 am

Lane,

Thanks for the info!

What is involved in adding a mechanical half stop? Is there a generally accepted method to achieving this or is it something where I'd need to go the manufacturer to acquire parts, etc?

Thanks!

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 13 Aug 2013 8:56 am

You need to call Jackson Steel Guitars. They are the ones that made the guitar. They will be glad to help you.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 13 Aug 2013 9:04 am

The D stop is so important to me, and the C# so unimportant, that I don't use a half-stop at all. I must have a firm D note! I put the C# on another knee lever or a pedal, if the guitar allows. Else I do without the C#. I consider it an optional change, but the D is necessary.

If you don't have a firm D stop, you are losing half of the functionality of the C pedal.

Carl Kilmer · Post by **Carl Kilmer** » 13 Aug 2013 9:07 am

Half stops are easy to install on most steels and easy to adjust
for the right feeling. I have one on both of my Mullen's. I got
them from the factory and it only took a few minutes to install
and a few more minutes to adjust for the right feeling for me.

Paul Sutherland · Post by **Paul Sutherland** » 13 Aug 2013 9:09 am

bOb: I completely agree regarding the value of the D note, and the unimportance of the C#. But I don't understand your last statement regarding the C pedal. How does the second string lower to the D note relate to use of the C floor pedal?

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 13 Aug 2013 9:55 am

Yes b0b, you have piqued my curiosity too...

please explain... inquiring minds want to know...

The second string and I are not very familiar with each other anyway and I am looking for anything to break the ice and establish a long term relationship .

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 13 Aug 2013 9:58 am

Yeah Bob... that C pedal thing sounds intriguing.

I did get a chance to go home over lunch and fiddle with my guitar. There was a good amount of play in the knee lever even before the 2nd string lower engaged. So I adjusted the back stop (or whatever it's called) to be right at the 2nd string change. Now as soon as I hit that lever the change is moving.

It seems quite a bit better now but I didn't have much time to sit down and play.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 13 Aug 2013 10:20 am

Pedals B+C and the D lever makes a major chord on strings 2,3,4. It's a G chord at the 5th fret. Rocking on and off the C pedal makes that familiar country sound. For starters, try this:
[tab]
F# ______________________________________
D# ______________5D______________________
G# ___5B____________________5B___________
E _______5C--5______5--5C______5C_______
B ______________________________________
...

F# ______________________________________
D# ______________5D_________5D___________
G# ___5B_________________________________
E _______5C--5______5--5C_______________
B ______________________________________
... [/tab]
The root tone (G) is on the second string. The variations are endless.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 14 Aug 2013 5:08 am

Neato.... Thanks b0b.

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 14 Aug 2013 5:08 am

That's really cool b0b. Never would have thought of that. Certainly going to work on programming that baby in.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 14 Aug 2013 5:44 am

The mechanical half stop, having been a BIG part of Sho-Bud, is probably available from Jackson.They're easy to install. I think I have a pic, let me look
EDIT: I have it. You can see most of it. There's a pull in the bellcrank, but it's under the knee lever

Tim Konecky · Post by **Tim Konecky** » 14 Aug 2013 7:25 am

Email sent to Dawn.

Lane... It's hard telling what I'm looking at as I'm just now trying to familiarize myself with the mechanics of it all. Until recently I thought it was all just magic and rainbows underneath that thing.

Is it that knob looking thang on the end of the pull?

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 14 Aug 2013 10:36 am

If you have a spare raise hole in the 9th finger, you could have a super accurate half stop, coinciding the instant that the 9th string starts moving as soon as the 2nd string has dropped a semitone.

I've got an old post somewhere describing how to do it, I'll see if I can dig it out.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 14 Aug 2013 10:54 am

Ignore my last post, I think the Blackjack has some sort of pull-release system, so an extra rod on the 9th would not work

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 14 Aug 2013 11:06 am

Richard, I'd be interested in learning your idea anyway. See if you still got it and please post

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 14 Aug 2013 11:15 am

Up against the rear apron, that large round knob tunes the D note.
There is no set screw on the pull in the half-stop rod, it slides through the pull, there is a collar that the pull hits at D, and from D to C# it compresses the spring (pushing the rod, including the knurled knob, through the tower bracket).
Every guitar I've owned, save the Zum, has had them.
I'll try to take some pics this weekend, showing how it works.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 14 Aug 2013 12:59 pm

Bent,
It's not an idea of mine, this method of using an extra rod has been around a long time.

Scroll down to the first animation on Patrick Laffrat's site HERE

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 15 Aug 2013 3:22 pm

The mechanical stop is the way to go... Its a much more positive feel....bob

Fred Glave · Post by **Fred Glave** » 16 Aug 2013 8:47 am

My new Encore has a pretty firm half stop on string 2, but I still tuned it back for a straight D note. Got to have the D there.