Empty screw holes in MSA endplates? (and other mods)

[John Scanlon]

Looking at buying an 1973 (I believe) MSA Classic s-12 locally. There is one thing about the guitar I'm uncertain about, though. When viewing the front of the guitar (as the audience would), there are two empty machined screw holes on the front sides of the endplates - one in each, in the top corners.

Any ideas on what these are for? Are there screws missing, or was it to add some sort of accessory, like a sheet music holder?

Thanks.

Edited to add pic:


Edited again to note I've added more photos of other things on this guitar - they're later in the thread on p. 2.

[Scott Duckworth]

I looked at pics in Google Images and didn't see another like it. Probably for a tab rack, since it has them both ends. You might find a chrome hole plug to go in them.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

That guitar has been altered. Look at any of the pictures here,
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... =show++msa
and you'll see how.

[Lane Gray]

What Mike said. I don't think it'd affect the quality of the guitar, but I'd knock a hundred off the offer.

[John Billings]

If there's nothing else wrong with the guitar, I'd just get some nice chrome machine screws and screw 'em in.

[Glenn Uhler]

Figure out what size the screw threads are and get a couple of polished stainless steel or chrome plated screws to fill the holes, like John said. Many larger hardware stores and motorcycle shops have the chrome plated screws in stock.

[Jim Eaton]

Drill'em all the way through and put red led's in both of them!
JE:-)>

[Glenn Uhler]

If you do what Jim says, make sure you add the little 9V powered flasher circuit they sell at train hobby shops. Makes the LEDs flash alternately like a train crossing signal. Audience will be in a trance and watch you for hours!

[John Scanlon]

Wow, wonder what the purpose of the alteration was? Why would anyone drill/tap two machined screw holes in the end plates?

[Alan Brookes]

You could screw a cup holder into it and have somewhere to put your Jack Daniels while you're playing. Beats spilling your drink all over your new instrument.

[Mike Perlowin RIP]

I don't think it'd affect the quality of the guitar, but ....

I don't trust a guitar that has been altered. Maybe it's OK, maybe not. I would take it to a repair guy and have it thoroughly checked out.

I don't understand why anybody would butcher a beautifully engineered guitar that was made for Reece (R.I.P.) by Bud Carter. IMHO, the previous owner should have left it alone.

[John Scanlon]

I sure wish Reese were still around to help shed some light. He was always so good about answering questions. I guess any MSA experts are few and far between these days. My other thread about the history and difference of various MSA models has gone essentially unanswered. Thanks for the input, guys.

[John Billings]

John,
I'd just flip the guitar over and take a close look. You should be able to tell if anything else was hooked up to those missing screws, which I doubt. Looks like holes for a music rack, or maybe one of those upright fretboard viewing contraptions. I don't think it's anything to be overly concerned about, but take a close look first. A couple nice screws in the holes will look pretty natural.
John
Edit to add; I mean,,,, look at where the holes are. What could be fiddled with as far as the mechanics go? They're at the very ends of the guitar.

[Bobby D. Jones]

It looks as If something has been modified on this guitar more than just the empty holes on the endplate. My MSA has no visible screws in the end plates. Your picture shows a screw below the hole in the end plate. My MSA end plates have no screws visible. Also the bottom black trim piece along the bottom. Are those screws holding the trim?? I cannot see clear what the faults about 2 inches apart across the trim. Don't let one thing catch your attention when they may be more problems than what you are concentrating on. Good Luck in sorting out the true problems in this guitar. Will send a picture as soon as possible.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Here is a picture of my MSA Classic Decal is different but no holes or screws showing in the endplate or weird places in the bottom black trim.

[John Scanlon]

Thanks for the input. I get the guitar this Wed. to try it out on a loaner basis for a few days. I'll take a closer look and know more then. The current owner is a forum member, and I don't think he did any of this or even realized it had been done. He's not the original owner. And I believe the screw heads across the bottom are not holding the trim, but rather something to do with the cross rods and undercarriage.

[Lane Gray]

...And I believe the screw heads across the bottom are not holding the trim, but rather something to do with the cross rods and undercarriage.

I HOPE they're holding the trim on. If those screws have ANYTHING to do with the mechanics, that's not an MSA, but a Turnen Run, by Frank N. Stiehl.
That said, as long as the aprons don't have a bunch of extra holes, putting it right shouldn't be hard.

OTOH, ALL of those holes could be explained as attachment methods for a steel-mounted teleprompter...

[Carl Kilmer]

Could it be that over time the end plates somehow became loose
and either screws or nuts & bolts were added to reenforce them.

[Donny Hinson]

I sure wish Reese were still around to help shed some light. He was always so good about answering questions. I guess any MSA experts are few and far between these days. My other thread about the history and difference of various MSA models has gone essentially unanswered.

John, all the information you want is likely right here on the forum, all you gotta do is search for it. It may not be in the format you like, or as easy as reading one article, but it's there. Often times, things we want aren't easy, they require a little work, but life is like that.

"Expert" is a relative term, and I make no claims to that title, but I've been playing MSA's for over 40 years, and I'll try to answer any question you might have.

[Lane Gray]

John, I think the models after the crossbar models and before the hiatus were
Sidekick/Red Baron
Classic/Semi Classic (the semi was just short on levers.
Classic XL
Classic SS
(And I think the Vintage XL, but at the moment I'm thinking that mighta been post hiatus)
The Universals, I believe, were just another label on the current guitar.
Like Donny said, all the info is here on the forum, but if you'd like it in a different format, try formulating a specific question. The various folks on here with the knowledge to answer.

[John Scanlon]

Thanks again, all. I am quite familiar with the search function (as well as the "site:" general Internet search). There is definitely a wealth of info out there on the forum, and I'm so glad it's around. I promise I try not to waste anyone's time, or make duplicate threads, so I always search before asking. I have literally spent hours searching on this question and related ones, and, if it's on the forum, I can't find it. If anyone knows of a thread or any other info explaining the modifications to this guitar, or just other, similar modifications to any guitar, please share. On the other thread, I found many references to other links, which are now dead, but not much answering what I was asking specifically. Sincerely hope I'm not upsetting the apple cart with my questions, and again, all info responsive to my question is greatly appreciated.

[Lane Gray]

I hope that the MSA history does return to the MSA site, for that is the only place I have ever seen anything like what you were after. I am sure the information exists somewhere, but not in a Handily compiled format. As to the modifications to your specific guitar, I guess we would have to see pictures of the underside, the stuff on the front appears mostly cosmetic, and not relating to the functions of the guitar.
is it appears that David Wright is involved in MSA, and he is rightly disappointed at the way his father's history has gotten short shrift, I would expect the history to get preserved. With the recent death of Maurice, it may take a little while for things to get settled back down.
Since MSA have the records of who purchased the original guitars in its possession, I would expect the history is there in Dallas somewhere, and it just needs to be compiled.

[John Scanlon]

Thanks, Lane. That confirms my belief that what I was seeking was indeed only on the MSA site, but not anymore for now. I do plan on sharing more pics Wed. I didn't mean to insinuate that there are no MSA experts, but maybe just that they're silent on these questions. My many searches revealed that most MSA answers posted in the past seem to have come from Reece.

[Donny Hinson]

John, the mods to the guitar you pictured are simply those of a previous owner. We can speculate as to why he chose to drill those holes and add those screws, but we'll never know for sure unless he speaks up...which is doubtful. (People who do foolish things often don't like to admit to doing them.)

Some years ago, I bought a Fender 400 which had similar issues. Though it was in decent shape, the underside of the guitar had 37 empty screw holes in it, where a person, or "persons unknown", had probably added knee levers, an ash tray, a wine cooler, a tool box, supercharger, and various other "accessories", only to later remove them. It's an unfortunate fact of life that the pedal steel guitar, due to its mechanical nature, invites tinkering, modifying, and tweaking, and many times these efforts are made by those with good intentions, but poor understanding of mechanics and aesthetics.

[Johnny Cox]

Definitely an alteration from original.