Pickup Comparison mp3's

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I just found a long-lost file containing the Carter Steel Guitars (John Fabian produced, Billy Phelps played, I believe) sound comparisons of:

--Lace Alumitone
--GL 10-1
--GL eon
--GL ss
--GL e-66
--BL xr-16
--ToneAligner
--Wallace Truetone

Identical :31 passage played thru each. If you understand how to listen to them, they are informative. Totally YMMV. But informative.

I would put them online but not until I was 100% confident that they do not exist elsewhere online and that this was not violating someone else's proprietary interests. I will not go anywhere near there--these do not belong to me.

I'm seeking any info & opinion on the subject of if I can & should post them.
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....advice came in, things were discussed, here it is:
Pickup Comparisons

[Don McGregor]

I didn't realize they were offline. I just tried to find them, with no luck.
Hope you post them.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I've got these ready to go on Soundcloud. I'm just giving the world a little more time to respond to the issues involved. If I hear no objection or negative opinion by tomorrow I'll post it.

[Bruce Derr]

I didn't know such a comparison existed. I'd be very interested in hearing it. I love the sound of the TrueTone in my Carter S-10 but have found it to be very susceptible to picking up stray 60 Hz fields in some places (one studio in particular, where it is pretty much unusable). Curious to hear the others in comparison.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

Ok. Here goes. Please report any errors.

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...... Pickup Comparisons
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[Scott Denniston]

I'm hearing the True Tone and Alumitone as being very close and probably my preference. Wish there was a BL710 on there too. Thanks a lot for posting this Jon.

[Douglas Schuch]

Well, I don't know if it is my ears, or my cheap speakers on my computer (which always sound decent to me playing music), but I can't tell much difference between any of these pick-ups. If you told me it was really all a joke, and it is the same track repeated 8 times, I'd believe you.

There is WAY more difference between my beater Sho-Bud I acquired a while back to restore (original P/U), and my Zum with an Emmons single-coil at 18.5 - two pickups that are fairly similar, I think. so, I have to assume a lot of the difference is the guitars (and, of course, it would be hard to get two steels more different than these two... which was part of the idea).

So, very interesting. I hope others chime in with their impressions.

Doug

[Jon Light (deceased)]

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[Keith Davidson]

Douglas, there certainly is a difference in each one. Standard computer speakers won't provide enough clarity or depth.

I have a small recording studio in my basement with a decent reference amp and KRK R6 reference speakers and the difference is VERY noticeable.

I just wish someone would post that walk up he is playing. Would love to have a tab of that, it sounds beautiful.

Keith

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I only just played the compilation clip that Soundcloud made (I uploaded them as 8 individual clips). Does anybody else get some funk remix shit playing automatically when it ends? Very annoying, regardless of the fact that we are riding on a free service.

[John Groover McDuffie]

Wish there was a BL710 on there too. Thanks a lot for posting this Jon.

I have a BL 712 on my Sho-Bud and a XR-16 on my Carter. In my experience (and IIRC Ernest Bovine agreed) there is not a lot of difference between the BL 710/712 and the BL XR-16 series.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

They are indistinguishable in appearance. I wonder what the actual difference is.

[John Groover McDuffie]

Nice demonstration!

I wish I could download the clips so that I could audition them in my studio playing simultaneously and running out to different channels on my board so I could A/B/C/etc quickly between them. I found that very helpful when auditioning Seymour Duncan pickup demo tracks.

When I listened to the end of the last clip I also had the "pleasure" of then "getting" to hear some sort of trance/dance track by someone named Andre Alves. Thanks, Soundcloud, but no sale!

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I seem to be stupid--I have no problem making these available for download but I can't seem to figure out how! Still working at it.....

[John Groover McDuffie]

You could share a folder on Dropbox with anyone interested. Or depending on the size you could email them...?

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I think I've got them downloadable now. And I'll email them to anyone. You'll need to email me for that option.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

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[Donny Hinson]

Like Doug Schuch, I hear them all as very close, even when listening through my Technics "Class A" amplifier with four 12" speakers, mid-ranges, and tweeters, and that more or less confirms what I've always preached...that there are no "night-and-day" differences in modern pickups. To be sure, there are some subtle differences with some of those profiled, but I think those differences could be reduced even more with some minor EQ adjustments. Now, if you were playing at home with headphones, or in a studio setting, I think a different pickup might make a small difference, but in the context of playing with a band (in a live situation) my own opinion is that the differences are moot.

In my 50+ years playing and listening, I've heard players with good sounds and bad, but I don't believe I've ever heard a single one that I felt sounded "bad" because of the pickup they used. I know that might rankle some readers here, but I'd be lying if I said otherwise.

[Steve Ahola]

I would put them online but not until I was 100% confident that they do not exist elsewhere online and that this was not violating someone else's proprietary interests.

FWIW music samples up to 30 seconds in length are fair game which is why sites like Amazon have a wide library of 30 second music samples. The samples you emailed me were all 30 seconds long but it is always good form to check around first before posting anything you downloaded elsewhere.

Thanks!

Steve Ahola

P.S. I just received the samples and my first conclusion is that a great pedal steel player sounds great with any of these pickups. I did notice subtle differences between them. The GL-E66 and 10-1 samples confirmed my own impressions. The E66 seems to have a fuller bass response while the 10-1 has a brighter sound with a nice upper midrange (no wonder Jimmy Day liked it so much.)

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I just happened to check my soundcloud account and saw that some people have been checking some of these out recently.
So I'm bumping it for random inexplicable reasons.

[Chuck Snider R.I.P.]

Jon, maybe this could be a "sticky" item to be around near the top for a long time. When I was first into this, the info from the Carter website was invaluable to me. I know some of that info has surfaced in different places, but I sure do miss that site and what it had to offer in the way of explaining things to newbies and others as well.

-Chuck

[Godfrey Arthur]

I only just played the compilation clip that Soundcloud made (I uploaded them as 8 individual clips). Does anybody else get some funk remix shit playing automatically when it ends? Very annoying, regardless of the fact that we are riding on a free service.

Jon thanks much for uploading the clips. The Carters did a good job, same player, same (almost) piece and hopefully the exact same sound chain/recorder. And yeah like other Soundcloud clips, it did segue onto other tracks at the end of the Wallace Trutone clip.

A primer for a pickup shoot out. I did notice some pickups accentuated (bloomed) certain parts of the passage differently as well as showing a different overall tone up and down the neck.

Like guitars with multiple pickups, wouldn't it be great if psg's had pickup selector ability?

Any of these pickups will react to the individual player's touch, where on the neck, and the parts played.

[Douglas Schuch]

With lots of discussion about pickups lately (seems to be a bit more to me, anyway), I thought I would bring this post back to the top - these sound files were made by Carter all on the same guitar, same sound chain, same EQ. Jon Light has posted them to Soundcloud (thanks Jon) following the demise of Carter's website.

I still hear very little difference - but do remember - recording adds another layer to the sound, and using the same devices to record would, I think, tend to make samples sound bit more alike than hearing them live - I certainly hear distinctions between the various pickups I have tried on my MSA Millennium (which allows for near-instant change and comparisons) that I do NOT hear, or perhaps barely hear, in these samples, even using quality headphones.

After doing lots of A/B testing with what guitars, pickups, and amps I have had at my disposal, and assuming the same player, I have concluded that, in order of importance, these are the factors that affect tone:

1)Playing technique (obvious - just pick near the changer, then again well up the fretboard - two different tones. Add in strength of attack, etc, and you have a wide latitude of tone possibilities in your two hands).

2)Amp - I started out thinking any amp could probably be EQ'ed to equal another. I could not have been more wrong. The amp, more than any other gear IMO, affects the final sound you get from your guitar BEFORE using any effects (effects, of course, totally changing the sound).

3) Tie: Speaker (at least, with the few I have been able to compare, all considered quality speakers for steel guitar).

3) Tie: Pickup - less difference than most people think, IMO.

5) Guitar - I will note I have never had a chance to play a P/P or a Franklin, much less A/B them with other guitars. But I have played and directly compared '84 Zum, '97 Zum, Stage One, MSA Millenniums, Kline, Sho-Bud '74 Round Front and '75 Pro Custom and found the actual guitar has the least impact to my hearing of any of these factors based on my samples.

Not included - volume pedal - because I've always played with a Hilton. But also, there can be a very noticeable change in your tone switching from active to passive pedals, as well as fromcheap, overly-long cables to quality, appropriately-sized ones, or adding a buffer into your circuit.

These are just my experiences - as always, YMMV. And here again are the pickup samples - still active on Soundcloud - so anyone can listen to a variety of pups and see which lights their fire!

[Ron Hogan]

DS,

Thx for reposting. Technique is a huge factor.

[Chuck Snider R.I.P.]

Bump this to keep it near the top.