Best Envelope Filter?

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 4 May 2013 9:38 am

Does anyone know what is the best Envelope Filter for use with a pedal steel?
Looking for advise as I know little about these devices.
Thank,
Andy

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 May 2013 10:36 am

The Boss T-Wah (TW-1?) is pretty good.
The Danelectro disappointed, as it couldn't track very fast.
Both the Boss and Danelectro didn't like diads, chords are out of the question.
I'm told the upper end ones are better.
If you want non-boutique, the Boss is the best bang for the buck.

Jack Hanson · Post by **Jack Hanson** » 4 May 2013 12:07 pm

Thirty years or so ago Russ Pahl used one of the early MXR envelope filters on his double-neck basket weave push-pull with the Sky Blue Water Boys. It sounded awesome when they played live. I’m with Lane that the newer Boss units, if somewhat noisy, offer pretty good bang for the buck. Plus they are readily available and they don’t cost an arm and a leg. There are undoubtedly much better studio-quality units if money is no object.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 4 May 2013 1:17 pm

The old MXR has my vote. Been trying to find one, but they are going for several hundred dollars when I do find them

Kelvin Monaghan · Post by **Kelvin Monaghan** » 4 May 2013 8:55 pm

I use the "Snow White" pedal by Mad professor with my Lap Steel havent found anything that comes close very fast tracking and voiced like a true Wah. Check out some videos on you tube. Cheers

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 5 May 2013 9:41 am

Thanks for those responses.
Sounds like the T Wha may be best for my needs at a good price.
Looking at these on line it looks like it needs to be activated with your foot like the older wha wha pedals?
I seem to remember now that MXR was a brand of some of them but looking on line I only see them for Bass?
They look like they are just a line through and no need to operate by foot?
Never have used any effects except the reverb in the amp so I'm kind of ignorant of these things.
Again, thanks for some thought and directions on what to look for.
Best wishes,
Andy

Howard Steinberg · Post by **Howard Steinberg** » 5 May 2013 10:41 am

The Behringer auto wah is not a bad pedal. The wah is subtle, the pedal is quiet and I believe that it is true by-pass. You won't be the coolest kid on the block with a Behringer pedal but it ain't bad for around $20.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 5 May 2013 3:25 pm

The Mutron III (the vintage one, not the more recent III+) and the Moogerfooger MF-101. The MXR is very good, too. I sold mine years ago to Bill Elm.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 May 2013 6:33 am

I had a Lovetone Meatball that was amazing. I sold it because was selling for twice what i paid for it on eBay.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 6 May 2013 10:53 am

I'm digging this unit:

http://www.sourceaudio.net/products/sou ... velope.php

The cons: it is difficult to dial in a specific sound that might be in your head. I still don't quite understand the parameters and the interactions

The pros: it is very musical. It seems that any way you set it sounds good, even if it's not what you intended,

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 6 May 2013 11:17 am

Hi Guys,
Thanks for all the help.
Now I have almost too much to consider, but feel lucky to have this forum.
I try to send a little donation to Bob whenever I think of it.
Think I will do so again today.
Great job he has done to provide this for all of us.
Andy

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 May 2013 12:53 pm

To answer your earlier question, you don't operate it like a wah wah because it reacts to the envelope of the signal coming in in a touch-sensitive way: the harder you dit it, the more aggressively it does what you set it to do.
It's as if you play a guitar through a Cry Baby and rock your foot with each note. It's enough UNLIKE a Wah that you can't treat it like one

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 6 May 2013 2:23 pm

Thanks Lane,
So the pedal part just sets the amount of affect you get when you pick the string, Is that right?

What got me off on this track was listening to a recording of Joe Goldmark doing a Beatles tune double tracked with two such devices I think.

Also some friends want me to help them make a recording when I get back to Saigon in June. They do some rock tunes as well as country so I was thinking that this filter may help me get away from the country steel sound.
Thanks again to all for the education I'm getting.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 6 May 2013 2:49 pm

The Boss T-wah, my favorite of the lower-dollar ones, has three controls:
Sensitivity, which you could set to only quack when you hit it hard, or hit at every note. Learning how to set it to respond to your personal right hand is a bit of an art. If you have problems getting your sound right, this knob is your problem (along with you not realizing how wildly inconsistent your right hand is)
Attack, how much it responds to your attacks.
Up/Down. Unless you're trying for a banjo-like fast decay, leave it "Up." At Up, you start bassy/muddy, then open up to bright. "Down," and it starts wide open bright, then throttles the highs

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 6 May 2013 3:15 pm

Thanks again Lane,
I already know my right hand is far from where I wish.
Thanks for the explanation of how to use these.
Think this may turn into a fun deal.
Maybe even improve my playing!

Billy Knowles · Post by **Billy Knowles** » 8 May 2013 10:05 am

MXR is hard to beat

Jerry Kippola · Post by **Jerry Kippola** » 8 May 2013 5:49 pm

The source audio one is pretty awesome, and many sounds to choose from

James Hartman · Post by **James Hartman** » 13 May 2013 10:53 am

You tend to get what you pay for with this type of effect. Cheaper ones in my experience are over-fussy and harder to use to any good musical effect.

Also, there's a definite learning curve, as the effect responds differently as you alter your attack or input volume to the pedal - takes some getting used to and figuring how to set it for your touch and playing style.

My longtime favorite is the EBS Black Label Bass IQ (works fine for guitar, steel, etc.). It's a bit on the pricey side.

Paul Honeycutt · Post by **Paul Honeycutt** » 24 Jun 2013 1:46 pm

I have a Maxon AF-9. It was licensed by MuTron and has the same controls. I've A/B'ed it with a vintage MuTron. The difference? Maxon uses a nine volt power supply, IIRC, the MuTron is 18 or 24.

The only audio difference I heard is that with the Maxon, the note decays slightly faster. My Maxon is vintage (old), but they make a reissue that to the best of my knowledge, is an accurate reproduction.

Maxon made the Ibanez pedals, so you can probably find an Ibanez AF-9 if you're looking for an older pedal. My Maxon likes to see a hot input signal, so I put it first in line.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 24 Jun 2013 4:11 pm

Here's a link to a song I played on using the MXR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5PApvQxjQY

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jun 2013 4:24 pm

The one in the Line 6 Pod XT works well for me. The only other one I've had was the MXR, which I found hard to dial in correctly.

I use it (the Pod XT) after the volume pedal for a wah effect. You can hear it in "Unchain My Heart" - solo at 2:08.

http://b0blee.bandcamp.com/track/unchain-my-heart

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 24 Jun 2013 4:40 pm

Thanks to all three of you for the added advise.
I've still not acuired the filter though I did try out a Wha wha pedal with my steel.
It sounded good but was hard to place next to the volume pedal, Not enough room... That caused my leg to press in an uncomfortable way against the steels leg to reach it.

Yes Bob, that is the sound I'm after so if I can find one like that here* and borrow your fingers all will be well.
*Back in Saigon now.
BTW, Hope you have made or are making a good recovery from your surgery?

A friend of mine here in Saigon is headed back to the USA today. His name is Harvey Morrison (Photographer) and he has a nice ranch with some friends on 128 above the big S turn with a great view of Cloverdasle.
I told him to look out for your band.
He has been a friend since 1968 when he did the puppet show at the Avalon ballroom in SF, You know, the Family Dog....

Don Griffiths · Post by **Don Griffiths** » 24 Jun 2013 7:50 pm

Hello Andy,
I've come across your website before while shopping for inlay material. Impressive inlays you have displayed there. The foreign address threw me off,now that I know you are a real person I won't hesitate to order from you.
So I am in the market for an envelope filter myself and have been doing quite a bit of research on this myself for the last month.All of the pedals mentioned above I have read good things about.There are times I would like to soften the attack or get kind of a flute sort of vowel note where pumping the volume pedal every note just isn;t realistic.
The Mutron III was the pedal behind Jerry Garcia's tone and the pedal that many of the current pedals are designed after and trying to emulate. The full Electro Harmonix QTRON is supposedly the same circuit design.
The QTRON + has true bypass but for some reason the the regular QTRON has more good reviews.
I'm amazed how many envelope filters there are out there. Are that many folks buying envelope filters that this many companies can make a profit on them? I have bought and sold 2 that I tired of rather quickly, a DOD25 which worked fine for the money and a micro Qtron.
So I think I've narrowed it down to 3 that I am seriously considering and have read some good things about.
1.3leaf audio Proton
2.Hartman
3.Full Qtron

Or I might go for more of an analog synth type of effect with a HOG2, a POG2 or a Moogerfooger MF101 low pass filter. The Moogerfooger actually has 4 inputs for up 4 to expression pedals so as you can control the different parameters with your feet while you play.Just what we need ,eh? More Pedals? Or pedals small enough to operate with our toes! I knew that yoga instructor was on to something when she was trying to get me to move all of my toes independently of the others!
A few more that I read good things about but just don't think it is my thing is the Emma Discombobulator and the Meatball.
What will probably be the deciding factor is which one is most available when I am feeling the impulse to spend money. Aghh, maybe I'll just skip buying the pedal and spend the money on a shrink.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jun 2013 10:12 pm

Andy,

All of the steel effects you hear on the Rice & Bean songs were from the Line6 Pod 2. The phaser is especially nice, and there are many different options for reverb, echo and distortion. It's a very versatile device for live stage work as well as recording. I used it to record Oscar's guitar as well (the steel parts were overdubbed later).

Andy DePaule · Post by **Andy DePaule** » 24 Jun 2013 11:13 pm

Hi Don,
Not only am I real, but I used to live and build guitars in Willits.
Had two diferent music shops on Main street.
My first shop was where the McDonalds parking lot is now.
That was from 1970 to some time in 1977.
Some of the old timers there may remember me.
We had a country music band named Crazy Creek and played every weekend.
Played Fort Bragg, Mendocino, Ukiah, and Clear Lake as well as so many places near there... Once even backed up Ferlin Husky in Laytonville.
Best wishes,
Andy

The Steel Guitar Forum

Best Envelope Filter?

Best Envelope Filter?

Thanks for the help

Thanks for all the help....

Pedal

Right hand

Mxr

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Envelopes and filters

Willits?