My New MSA -Reece please help!

Matthew Bradford · Post by **Matthew Bradford** » 24 Jan 2013 4:50 pm

Hey Y'all,

I just picked up an old MSA Classic D-10. It only has two knee levers, right leg, and the serial number is 2c4179. Is this something that has been modified? Anybody know what year it's from?

Thanks,
Matt

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Jan 2013 6:17 pm

Edit the subject line to something like. "Reece, what can you tell me about my guitar?"
He'll be along in a day or three and probably tell you the date AND the first purchaser.
Back in the 70s, two knees wasn't uncommon

Michael Yahl · Post by **Michael Yahl** » 24 Jan 2013 6:52 pm

I'll give you a quick WAG.

I have a D12 Classic 2C3035 that Reece told me 1974
and a D10 Classic XL 2C5975 that he told me was 1978.
(I can't find the sheet I wrote the info on so I forget the months)

Half way in between would be 4505 so I'd say yours is a 1976.

Let's see what Reece says.

BTW, I can fix you up with knee lever kits. I should have a new run of bell cranks finished next week and will be able to complete the kits. You can see all my parts on my website.

www.psgparts.com

Michael

Matthew Bradford · Post by **Matthew Bradford** » 25 Jan 2013 7:49 pm

Thanks for the responses. I may have to get some levers for the left leg if I don't sell the thing. Car just decided to take a, well, nothing good. What are these puppies worth? I got it for a song figuring I could flip it, but I see prices from $800-$2300 all over these here internets.
Thanks again for all the responses.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 25 Jan 2013 8:08 pm

Depending on condition. With 8&4, it should be worth 12-1500 in good shape. Subtract $300 for your two missing knees. Add $100-150 if it's lacquered instead of mica. Add a bit if it's top*shelf, subtract if it's in rough shape

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 26 Jan 2013 3:43 am

More important that the actual year of construction, is whether the body is dieboard and mica or a Maple and lacquer.

Can you post some pictures?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Jan 2013 6:22 am

Reece is the authority, but I'd guess that's an early '75 model, possibly built in March or April. Also, it's probably not really "missing" any levers, since the standard model Classic came with a minimum of 2 levers.

Back in those days, no one considered having 2 levers a handicap.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 26 Jan 2013 6:31 am

I agree, Donny. But from our standpoint 38 years later, 8&2 IS missing 2 knees, or 3.
And, since these are too plentiful to be rare collector's items¹, I think the market subtracts the costs of adding them on, since 4 is kinda the minimum now, so as soon as someone buys it, Michael Yahl, Jim Palenscar or Tom Bradshaw gets $280, give or take a bit.

¹Reece and Co. built 'em to last, and made a bunch ovvem.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 26 Jan 2013 8:05 am

Donny Hinson wrote:Reece is the authority, but I'd guess that's an early '75 model, possibly built in March or April.

I think that's right around the time they changed the design of the body.

Matthew Bradford · Post by **Matthew Bradford** » 26 Jan 2013 11:06 am

Pretty sure it's maple with a black lacquer. I'm on a mini tour, I'll check it out and post pics when I get back. I'd hate to sell it. Never be able to replace it for the same price. Also, can't play it to save my life.

I already talked to Jim about adding some levers, but I might just order a kit and do the work myself. Seems pretty straight forward.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 26 Jan 2013 11:39 am

One easy way to tell is to look at the pickup. On the Dieboard/Mica models, the neck extends all the way to the pickup well. On the maple/lacquer ones, the pickup is surrounded by an aluminum block.

You can see the difference if you look at the pictures of all the different guitars on the "Show us your MSA" thread.

Some people prefer the dieboard ones and some prefer the maple ones. When I had one of each, I preferred the maple one (shown in my avatar) but I used them interchangeably. They both served me well for decades.

Brad Issendorf · Post by **Brad Issendorf** » 26 Jan 2013 12:13 pm

My Classic is number 2C4540, which Reese told me was completed April 15, 1975. Mine is a maple D10 with 8 and 4 from the factory.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 26 Jan 2013 6:47 pm

Lane Gray wrote:I agree, Donny. But from our standpoint 38 years later, 8&2 IS missing 2 knees, or 3.

You're probably right, Lane. I'm an old fossil, and keep forgetting that a lotta players these days would be like a one-legged man in a kicking contest if they didn't have at least 4 or 5 levers on their guitar.

Matthew Bradford · Post by **Matthew Bradford** » 27 Jan 2013 11:35 am

i realize I have this on my phone. Better pics when I get back to LA.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 27 Jan 2013 6:34 pm

This picture doesn't help identify whether the guitar is mica or maple. The reflection of the overhead light prevents us from seeing where the neck meets the pickup well.

Please post another picture, a close up of that part of the guitar.

Reece Anderson · Post by **Reece Anderson** » 28 Jan 2013 9:42 am

Matthew....I apologize for my late reponse. 2C4179 shows to be a black double 10 SS model which left the factory with 8 pedals and 2 knee levers. The original owners name was not entered into record. Your guitar was born on Jan.28th 1975.

Thank you for your interest in the history of your guitar, and for being part of the MSA family.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 28 Jan 2013 10:44 am

Looks like mica to me. Sharp front edge and what to me looks like the aluminum front strip. Could be a reflection ,too....

Matthew Bradford · Post by **Matthew Bradford** » 28 Jan 2013 11:13 am

No problem Reece! Thanks for the response!

Mike, I'm out on the road right now. I'll get pictures when I get back later this week.

Alright, I need to add a couple levers, can anybody tell me what they should pull? When it ships with two, are the two doing the work that four would have done? They seem to affect both necks.

This forum is pretty dern wonderful. Thanks for all the replies, help, and information.

Matt

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 29 Jan 2013 5:59 am

Matt, that depends on what the levers you already have are doing. I suspect 1 of them will drop both your E strings to D#, and the other will either raise them to F, or lower 2 and 9 down to C#, with a half stop when the second string is at D.
If I were to have four knee levers only, I would set it up the following way.
LKL: 4&8 to F
LKR: 4&8 to D#
RKL: lower 6 to F#, and either raise 1 to G or 1 to G# and 2 to E (boy, would I want a half-stop at G)
RKR: 2&9 to C#, with a half stop when 2 is at D.

Some believe in putting the 2 E string changes on separate knees. As I often combine the D# lever with either of the 2 opposing knees, I like keeping the E's together.
A 5th lever, lowering the B strings down to A#, might also not be a bad idea.