Mechanical quality of vintage Sho Buds

Cody Angel · Post by **Cody Angel** » 16 Jan 2013 9:05 am

I am looking at buying a 1978 Sho Bud and I am wondering how you guys feel about the way they stay in tune, the tightness of moves etc. I am in the market for my first D10 and I don't know how I feel about 35 year old mechanics vs. buying a newer Rains or Mullen. Sho Bud is the sound of all my favorite records and what my heroes played but I want to be in tune more than anything. Thanks!

David Milliken · Post by **David Milliken** » 16 Jan 2013 9:25 am

I own a 1976 ShoBud LDG - bought it in 1998 and it spent two years in and out of the case on a regular basis until I ended up playing guitar in a rock band. This past year, I am back at my LDG regularly, taking lessons and gigging weekly with it. From my perspective, it has held up well. It's a heavy sucker, very well made and seems to stand up well to all the travel misuse. I have had no mechanical issues but it is due for a checkup at Al Brisco's Steel Guitars of Canada. As for tuning, I'm told the newer PSGs are better and more reliable; but do they have the tone? Others on this forum will know better than me. I'm also told you can be in tune with yourself or in tune with the band. But not likely both together.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Jan 2013 10:32 am

Bear in mind this: There are probably more varieties and vintages of Sho~Bud than there are of any other brand of guitar, and not all are equal. The sound that Lloyd Green and Pete Drake got in the 1960s will be difficult to get on a later vintage 'Bud.

Nineteen seventy eight was when Sho~Bud started moving heavily into the Super Pro era with lots of pot metal parts, and these relatively inexpensive parts tend to wear faster than those parts made from solid and/or cast aluminum used in the 60's up through the mid-70's.

That's not to say that a lightly used SB from the late 70's through the 80's wouldn't be a great sounding guitar and operate well. As in all used instrument shopping, condition condition condition is everything.

For sound purposes, my personal favorite (IOW, MHO) era of S~B was 1970-1974, the era of the round-edge cabinets and 2-screw mount pickups. Narrowing it down further, the Pro-2 model from 1973 with 2-hole bellcranks and changer fingers with pins for string mounting. Perhaps not as versatile an undercarriage for super precise timing of pulls as the later undercarriages, but for almost all players that's only academic and the sound and reliability of these guitars was from the Golden Era of Sho-Bud, IMHO only.

Gordon Hartin · Post by **Gordon Hartin** » 16 Jan 2013 12:00 pm

My first pro steel bought in 2000 was a 1975 Sho-Bud Pro III 8x4 Dbl Raise Single Lower Changer. It was my only steel for 5 years then I got a 1981 Sho-Bud Super Pro 8x5 I think it was a dbl raise dbl lower.

These guitars both played quite a bit different from each other, but they both played in tune and had very little cabinet drop.

If you are used to a modern guitar, the feel is quite a bit different.

Gordon

Ray Anderson · Post by **Ray Anderson** » 16 Jan 2013 1:38 pm

I have a d-10 Pro111 76 or 77 year ( best we can pin it down). The only tuning problem I have is the nylon adjusters will back off of tension. I guess age has sometning to do with this, so I replace them and sometimes cleaning the threads in the nut and on the rods helps.

I play this guitar everyday when I get home from work. (Play at it)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 16 Jan 2013 2:36 pm

No Bud is as good mechanically as most modern steels are,, Plain and simple..
However, some are certainly very solid and reliable.. Some are not..
Some Buds simply don't like to stay in tune, and can be a headache.. Buds are really nice guitars, but they aren't all created equal.. A good one is a good guitar.. A bad one is a headache... bob

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 16 Jan 2013 2:59 pm

I have 2 universals. The older Sho-Bud I bought new here in U.K. in 1977. At the time it was an extended E9th, but I had it converted to a universal. It's a Gumby head/stock and tear/drop levers. This is a double raise and single lower, and I recall Ricky Davis saying those changes were really good. That Sho-Bud had been in a horrific house fire about 7 years ago, and I'm sure some of you forumites saw the before and after pictures. It played good before the fire and is equally as good now. Never had tuning probs at all. You can hear it on the homepage of my website. The Carter that is pictured there was bought in 2003. I do love them both, but just goes to show that as Bob above my post said, some are made good, some not so good. I guess this can apply to cars too. Good or bad....it's a lucky dip

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 16 Jan 2013 3:19 pm

Here's the Bud after the complete rebuild from Dave Langdon here in U.K. on the left

and the BBQ job underneath

Kind donations for the fret boards and decals from the late John Coop..end tuners from Paul Redmond who built the Whitney "keyless" steels, and a set of Univeral strings from John Davis.

Julian Goldwhite · Post by **Julian Goldwhite** » 16 Jan 2013 3:59 pm

I'm a great fan of the old 'Buds. Yes the era that you are mining from is not their pinnacle of quality control, but there are still plenty of good ones out there that are solid and sound like nothing else could. As for the pot metal parts, there are a couple amazing people on this here forum who make replacement parts that are far superior to the originals (IMHO, though I'd be shocked if someone was to disagree with that).

All the best,

Julian

Peggy Green · Post by **Peggy Green** » 16 Jan 2013 4:06 pm

I purchased The Pro - II Custom in 1974 and 1977. Both were built by Paul Franklin, Sr.. My '77 is my all-time favorite. That is the Sho-Bud by which I am known in Massachusetts, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and upstate New York.

If I hadn't grown up on a dairy farm I'd think that Sho-Bud invented butter in 1977.

Some of the Hallmarrks of these guitars:
1. Nylon Tuners

a. From the business end of a pedal steel guitar - the changer.

b. An old nylon tuner head on endplate

2. Narrow pedals - on my '74 I hacksawed off part of the G#-A pedal to have a faster pivot on my AB pedals.

3. Pickups - Custom ordered 12k ohms on the E9. 10-12k ohms were the terms they used discussing pickups. Std pickups were a couple of k ohms less. (The Sho-Bud terminology)

4. Scale - standard Sho-Bud is 24 inch scale. Lloyd Green used a 24 1/2 in. scale. Note the shorter tuning heads - 1/2 in shorter.

5. Pull rod baffling. Below the picture shows the foam used by Paul Franklins Sr. to quiet the guitar.

6. A wonderful instrument.

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7. Modern Steels. I own Franklins - wonderful. I own a Sho-Bud made of Sho-Bud ppare parts from the company closing and Marrs rod mechanisms - I played it on my first album - not a buttery pedal action like the '77. I also own a Fessenden Grande Console. I am fully willing to show up with a Franklin double-neck or my white Sho-Bud to any gig. Both cut the mustard.

I love my white Sho-Bud.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 16 Jan 2013 4:32 pm

When you say a Rains or Mullen are in the running, it appears that your budget would include a potmetal ShoBud and the modernized parts to fix it as needed? Just as long as you're going into it with your eyes open - you might end up liking it a whole lot more, or a whole lot less, depending on your personal reaction to the "high-maintenance" type. Of guitar, that is....

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 16 Jan 2013 9:57 pm

No Bud is as good mechanically as most modern steels are,, Plain and simple..

I couldn't agree more. The No Bud is good mechanically. It's had lot of mods.

Way back in 1983, it got a nice compliment from this gentleman:

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Jan 2013 10:00 pm

Mickey, nice Bud. Is that "flamed" maple. Sorry, back to my room now.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 17 Jan 2013 4:14 am

Why not get a new Jackson?

Daniel Policarpo · Post by **Daniel Policarpo** » 17 Jan 2013 4:14 am

Richard Sinkler wrote:Mickey, nice Bud. Is that "flamed" maple. Sorry, back to my room now.

Oh, ouch!

The sound of that guitar on your homepage is killer. Just beautiful lows and the uppers have that stang that I identify so much with the Sho-Bud sound. Of course, the player might have something to do with that. beautiful restoration.

Jan Viljoen · Post by **Jan Viljoen** » 17 Jan 2013 5:16 am

Micky,

How on earth did Dave fix that piece of burnt wood?
Can he do that with any burnt log, or what?

I am impressed

By the way, I also have a Roland cube 80.

Thanx.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 17 Jan 2013 7:31 am

Richard...you're forgiven

Actually it was a bad day for me. I was away from home and the Police phoned me...The sadest thing was one of my dogs (Standard Poodle) died in the fumes of the fire. Dave who did the rebuild put a "Phoenix" decal at the end. He asked if I wanted the name "Jolene" instead....I declined that as it would have been a reminder how she lost her life. People like Dave are "Angels" I had never met the man before and through this forum he heard my plight. Took him over a year to finish that 'bud....and!!!!! he wouldn't accept a penny...did it all for nothing. He said he just wanted to hear it played again. No doubt there will be a place through the Pearly Gates when his time comes

...I did give him some money, but he reluctantly only accepted a miniscule sum of money.

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

Ian Stynes · Post by **Ian Stynes** » 17 Jan 2013 8:00 am

I'm curious to hear what people think about how the new Jackson guitars compare to the vintage Buds. They sure do look nice!

-I

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 17 Jan 2013 8:19 am

Here's a few more of the rebuilt 'Bud. I did all the hand engraved metal in 1983 recovering from a by pass operation..if you can draw, you can engrave. Mind you I did hold my breath when I got the point onto the first flower

...last picture is what an overturned house candle can do!!! Was 5 months before we could move back into the house..everything can be replaced as this testimony shows, but not a pet!!

Alan Berdoulay · Post by **Alan Berdoulay** » 17 Jan 2013 8:45 am

While this thread is drifting towards mickys guitar.......I've always admired the engraving when that guitar turns up in other threads, but I don't recall it being discussed. Will you tell more about it? Maybe it deserves its own thread.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 17 Jan 2013 9:01 am

Alan..sorry the thread drifted off somewhat. When I was a kid, I could always draw good pictures. Some of the school kids used to ask me to do their drawings at exams while the teacher wasn't looking. From my website it tells you I've had alot of health problems. As I mentioned earlier..my band would get a dep player when I was ill, and only through boredom I got my engraver out and do my engraving on the Sho-Bud. This is not for everybody, but I like to personalise my instruments...My Carter is heavily engraved too. Go on guys have a go lol

..if you can draw..you can engrave...when I worked in the States years ago, bikers got me to engrave their Harleys...I guess I "HAD" to do it right LOL

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 17 Jan 2013 9:23 am

Frank...believe me the smell was awfull, but Dave took over a year for the rebuild...he had to make a new neck as that was too far gone, and the square front had to be rounded as it was so burnt on the front apron...by the time he phoned me to go and collect it,the smell was gone, glad to say. If you look for him on the forum, his name is Dave Langdon, or maybe David Langdon.

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

www.micky-byrne.co.uk

Larry Otis · Post by **Larry Otis** » 24 Jan 2013 6:22 am

I recently bought an '81 factory stock 12 string on EBay. I was warned about the funky parts so I keep it at home to practice on. It has NEVER even gone out of tune after playing an hour or two a day for months. I love it.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 24 Jan 2013 6:42 am

Larry...you got a good one like me

....using mine this sunday for a recording session.

Micky "scars" Byrne U.K.

Tommy Minniear · Post by **Tommy Minniear** » 24 Jan 2013 8:49 am

I had a square front Sho~Bud Pro II with 8 pedals (the narrow style) and 4 knee levers that I bought new and played and used hard for 21 years and never had any major problem with it. I had to sand and polish a groove out of a couple of the string fingers a couple times. Lost and replaced a clip holding a pull rod onto one of the the two hole bell cranks once. This steel rode in the trunks of cars, vans, trailers, and in the lower storage areas of busses all over the U.S. and Canada in all kinds of weather. I considered it a tool and used it as such. The only tuning problems I ever had were due to extreme cold (and then it was fine once it had warmed up to room temperature) or if I didn't change strings when I should have. I've owned several other Buds from differant eras over the years and never had any problems that would make me skiddish of owning another one.

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