making an sd/10 out of a d/10 emmons pp?

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 26 Dec 2012 6:49 pm

it has come to the point that i have to go with a lighter weight guitar, i have a couple of choices (i can get rid of my d/10 and get something in a single neck or i can take off the c/6th neck and make it lighter). just wondering if taking the c/6th neck off would affect the sound enough to be noticeable? any advice would really be appreciated....thanks jack

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 26 Dec 2012 7:18 pm

I wouldn't remove the C6 from an Emmons pp. If I could, I'd try to pick up a second single guitar and leave the Emmons set up at home. JMHO

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 26 Dec 2012 8:19 pm

I doubt you'd save more than 7-10 pounds.
I'd recommend a single neck if you actually wish to save weight

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 26 Dec 2012 8:21 pm

I'd be surprised if the weight difference was significant enough to be worth altering the guitar you have. (I see that Lane beat me to the punch on that observation!)

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 26 Dec 2012 8:48 pm

i realize that it would still be a little heavy, my problem is that i have already tried a couple of lighter weight guitars and have not found one yet with the tone of the d/10. even if i get another s/10 i would never be satisified with the tone. i guess the only way i could ever be satisified with a single neck would be to get rid of the d/10 emmons, but then most people hate to see a grown man cry.ha ha....thanks for all the advice fellows....jack

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 26 Dec 2012 9:04 pm

I don't hear an appreciable difference between a single and double neck push-pull

Skip Edwards · Post by **Skip Edwards** » 26 Dec 2012 10:08 pm

If you do take off the back neck, just make sure that you don't do anything that will prevent your putting it back on at a later date.
Even better...try out one of those new lightweight Justice steels...a couple of players here have them and they sound and play wonderful. And they're light.
No need to mess with a perfectly good p/p.

Jeff Metz Jr. · Post by **Jeff Metz Jr.** » 26 Dec 2012 10:32 pm

It would just make one less original PP in the world. Something we don't need is for the pushpulls to become extinct. I too would check out other options. Maybe a lonestar? They are still making pp's I believe.

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 27 Dec 2012 7:39 am

DO NOT BUTCHER THAT PUSH PULL....

It will certainly upset the balance of Karma in the world.

Like taking an x-acto knife to a Stradivarius....

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 27 Dec 2012 8:08 am

ok fellows i got to confess, if i tear it down i can put it together as original, i did this about 6 years ago. i am an emmons mechanic. i have repaired, rebuilt several pp's in the last 30 years,just wanted some advice as to the sound. when i had it as an sd/10 before it just seemed to me that the tone was not exactly the same....thanks jack

Rick Barnhart · Post by **Rick Barnhart** » 27 Dec 2012 9:30 am

Well, Jack sounds like you already have the answer.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 27 Dec 2012 9:31 am

I think the true "S-10" P/P's are the best sounding Emmons of all.

I can't explain why, but they're are significant differences. The E9th changer fingers are smaller compared to those on a D-10. Also there is no extra glue joint (btw top and bottom) running the length of the body may be contributory.

The two S-10 P/P's I've had sounded killer. I would've kept them but I just couldn't live w/o a C6th neck.

Ray DeVoe · Post by **Ray DeVoe** » 27 Dec 2012 11:23 am

I own several D 10 PP's and one SD 10 PP. I can hear almost no tone difference between the SD 10 and my one D 10. This is on an "equal" playing field as both have the BL 710 pickups on the E 9 neck.

Year wise, the SD 10 is a 1982. The D 10 that I am comparing it to is a 1969 that was rebuilt into a brand new body 12 years ago by former Emmons tech, Charlie Ward. These are both excellent sounding guitars.

I almost always take the SD 10 out just due to the weight savings and quick set up time.

Ray D.

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 27 Dec 2012 9:22 pm

the reason that i even thought of changing this pp to an sd/10 is that i am having hernia surgury in jan. and possiblly rotator cuff surgury after that and now just found out that i may have to have gall bladder surgury. i don't have a lot of choices except lighter guitars, but i have a sd/10 carter that i will play until i see how all the surgury goes, but i do really appreciate all the advice....thanks jack

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 27 Dec 2012 9:55 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:I think the true "S-10" P/P's are the best sounding Emmons of all.

I can't explain why, but they're are significant differences. The E9th changer fingers are smaller compared to those on a D-10. Also there is no extra glue joint (btw top and bottom) running the length of the body may be contributory.

The two S-10 P/P's I've had sounded killer. I would've kept them but I just couldn't live w/o a C6th neck.

What glue joint are you talking about??????? Maybe it is because I just collect Wraparounds, but when did Emmons start gluing the cabinets down the center? And why would they do that?

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 27 Dec 2012 9:56 pm

Tony Glassman wrote:I think the true "S-10" P/P's are the best sounding Emmons of all.

I can't explain why, but they're are significant differences. The E9th changer fingers are smaller compared to those on a D-10. Also there is no extra glue joint (btw top and bottom) running the length of the body may be contributory.

The two S-10 P/P's I've had sounded killer. I would've kept them but I just couldn't live w/o a C6th neck.

What glue joint are you talking about??????? Maybe it is because I just collect Wraparounds, but when did Emmons start gluing the cabinets down the center? And why would they do that?

Ray DeVoe · Post by **Ray DeVoe** » 27 Dec 2012 11:33 pm

Hi Jack.

I will weigh my 1982 SD 10 and then my 1969 D 10 this weekend using the same Emmons case.

This should represent a fairly accurate weight comparison. The only variance that I cant duplicate is the SD 10 has Legrande style pedals and the D 10 has the narrow cast pedals which I'm sure are a little heavier.

I can tell you up front that there is quite a difference in weight between the two. I will post the weights after I weigh the two guitars.

RD

Chris Lucker · Post by **Chris Lucker** » 27 Dec 2012 11:50 pm

Isn't the greater weight savings in the case anyway?

Get a single neck Emmons and buy a lap steel for C6 or E13.

Ray DeVoe · Post by **Ray DeVoe** » 30 Dec 2012 2:31 am

OK. The weights are in.

The 1982 SD 10 Emmons PP with 3 and 4 weighed in at 56.3 pounds in an Emmons style case. ( original SD 10) not a conversion,

The 1969 D 10 Emmons PP with 8 and 4 weighed in at 67.6 pounds in the same case.

That equals a weight difference of 11.3 pounds. The extra 11.3 pounds does not sound like a lot but it seems to make a difference at around 2:30 in the morning after a hard gig. !!
-----------------------------------------------

Just for comparison. I also have a set of split cases that I placed the D 10 into and then weighed the guitar over again. These are fairly solid cases and there are probably lighter ones available.

The split case with just the D 10 guitar body weighed in at 49.3 pounds

The split case with the legs and pedal bar weighed in at 29.2 pounds. * This pedal bar / leg case is larger than standard as I had it built "double wide" with a divider in it to house a volume pedal and cords and whatever else.

The bottom line is that when any of these guitars get too heavy to handle, a split case setup is the only way to go.

Ray DeVoe

John Swain · Post by **John Swain** » 30 Dec 2012 9:45 am

After deciding not to give up my double neck in favor of a lighter "rehearsal guitar",I searched for a lighter case.With favorable recommendations from Randy Beavers and Wayne Dahl, I ordered fiberboard cases from Dan Bentley. My Carter D10 8x8 weighed 65#s in the original case.My body case weighs in a 36#, and the leg/pedalboard one is 17#...My shoulders are much relieved!!Nice workmanship,fast delivery and Dan is a pleasure to deal with! Call him with questions:615-268-6614.....JS

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 30 Dec 2012 11:59 am

thanks john: i weighed all 3 of my guitars without the cases (as i very seldon put mine in the case). the zum with 8 and 5 weighs 40 lb, the pp weighs 46 lb, and my sd/10 carter with 4 and 5 weighs 32 lb, if taking the c/6th neck of would lessen the weight by 11 lb that should get it down to 36 lb, probably could handle that....thanks jack

Mitch Ellis · Post by **Mitch Ellis** » 30 Dec 2012 6:46 pm

Jack Goodson wrote:the reason that i even thought of changing this pp to an sd/10 is that i am having hernia surgury in jan. and possiblly rotator cuff surgury after that and now just found out that i may have to have gall bladder surgury.

I certainly don't want to discourage you, but if you have to have all of THAT done, ANY steel guitar is going to be too heavy for a long time. Six months ago yesterday, my horse threw me (I'm 44 yrs old) and busted up my left shoulder real bad. Two broken bones, one cracked bone, one dislocated bone, and a lot of muscle and tendon damage. All in one shoulder. And now, six months later, it still gives me a little trouble. And I just let it heal itself. If I would have had surgery, it would probably be worse than what it is. After you have the surgery, take my advise and take it slow.

I hope everything goes well with you.

Mitch

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 30 Dec 2012 7:13 pm

mitch: i am probably not going to need any guitar for a while, but just in case i am just hoping for the best. good luck on you getting healed as soon as possible....thanks jack

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 30 Dec 2012 9:37 pm

PLEASE DON'T

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 30 Dec 2012 10:48 pm

It's interesting to note how hard it is to sell an SD-10 which used to be a D-10. Seems to be a common phenomenon in the "for sale" section.

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