Too much treble with a George L pic-up

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 30 Oct 2012 12:14 pm

Can't seem to get enough low end on my tone. I've played around with about every height adj. 0-3/8" on either end. No problem with power, just way too hot on the high end.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Oct 2012 1:02 pm

What are you using for an amp?

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 30 Oct 2012 1:05 pm

I have a 65 bandmaster with a 4x12 cab. and a fender princeton 65

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Oct 2012 1:29 pm

So with the treble turned down to zero on the Bandmaster you're still getting too much treble?

The solid state Princeton 65 will give you a lot of treble no matter what you're using. I'm surprised about the Bandmaster, though. Strange you can't dial off those highs a bit. The GL E66 is supposed to be a bit zingy, in its attempt to replicate the old PP Emmons tone. But I've never had an issues with the GL pickups regarding too much high end. You may need to use an EQ to dial out more highs.

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 30 Oct 2012 1:41 pm

I've been thinking about moving it further up the body and/or getting the old Sho-Bud one rewound and going for a combo set up. Gonna try a few different amps before i get too carried away with it.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Oct 2012 1:45 pm

Which model of Geo L's do you have? E-66, 10-1 or something else?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 30 Oct 2012 6:43 pm

The avatar pickup looks like an E66.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 30 Oct 2012 7:01 pm

I am going to throw out an idea here. It looks like that E-66 is right up against the bridge (changer) and being so close might gibe it a characteristic of say a bridge pickup on a tele (lots of twang). Is there any way you experiment with moving the pickup slightly away from the bridge ( changer ). So my guess is it could be either that or maybe just the characteristic of this particular model guitar. You might try contacting people with deal with these guitars professionally and see what they have to say.

David Nugent · Post by **David Nugent** » 30 Oct 2012 7:45 pm

Sho-Bud guitars and George L pickups are a poor match IMHO. Contact Jerry Wallace at 'Truetone Pickups' to have your stock pickup rewound, your ears will thank you.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 31 Oct 2012 12:13 am

It's your amps. You need to get a steel amp. Those amps are not voiced for steel. Also that pickup is too close to the bridge.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 31 Oct 2012 6:46 am

One more vote for moving the pickup. A Sho-Bud pickup might help, but it'd probably still come out way bright

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 31 Oct 2012 7:05 am

Missed the avatar, I guess but yeah, that's unusually close to the bridge. I don't recall 'Bud pickups ever being installed like that.

Anyhow, I agree that moving it away from the bridge would be a huge help in taming the treble end.

I still can't tell the GL model, but the E66 is the lightest, brightest of their pickups at about 17.5K ohms. A heavier wound pickup would also probably help, but I'd only do one or the other initially and go from there.

Pete Nicholls · Post by **Pete Nicholls** » 31 Oct 2012 9:11 am

Do you have the same results when you bypass your volume pedal? Sometimes, a volume pedal can affect your tone. I have a passive pedal and have found that I have better tone by reversing the input and output of the pedal!

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 31 Oct 2012 2:05 pm

I'll try reversing the I/o had'nt thought of that. picked up a preamp eq hopefully i can cut some of the highs with that. The thing sounds great at low to mid volume... might have to go to Petco and get some shock collars for the electric players...Hopefully I can widen out the cavity this upcoming week. Gotta drive up north to use the mill, not gonna try it with a router, that's just askin for trouble.

Quentin Hickey · Post by **Quentin Hickey** » 31 Oct 2012 2:57 pm

Here is what I would do if you have to plunge out the cavity. Make a jig box for the plunging and test it on a scrap piece of wood as a sample first to make sure that you know where the router bit is cutting. Than clamp it to the guitar cabinet with lots of clamps. Use a laminate trimmer style trimmer because these are easier to handle in small jigs. Make lots of passes going down a little at a time each pass instead of trying to route out the hole in one go. Its not as nerve racking as you may think, you just have to be careful and take youre time at it, hope this helps.

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 31 Oct 2012 3:15 pm

Gonna clamp it down on the Bridgeport, that's what I used for the first mod. takes out all the adventure of dis-manteling the bridge, and all the linkage. It's a pain enough to restring with that ashtray headstock.

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 1 Nov 2012 12:44 am

Is guitar a Sho-Bud Maverick? If so, that can easily be a problem.

John Vermeersch · Post by **John Vermeersch** » 1 Nov 2012 9:50 pm

Yeppers, leaning twords having the orig. p-up rewound and mounting it in front of the George... Could make an interesting balance.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 2 Nov 2012 6:14 am

If your guitar is a maverick I would not mess around with it . It will never sound like a pro model sho bud. Your amps are fine in my opinion. I use guitar amps like yours all the time. What I would do is get one of those pickup blenders made by Jon Light. That should take care of the problem without messing anything else up. Plus you will be able to use Jon's second pickup on your next Steel . If you start routing out your maverick it will be worth even less when you try to sell it.

The George L is a fine pickup and changing it will only offer subtle tonal changes. You are talking about a very big tonal change.

The cheapest and most effective tone fix is to not rest your wrist on the bridge when you pick. Pick the strings near the 15th fret and see if it is still to brite. Sounds to me like you have a basic technique issue. Practicing might not be as much fun as shopping and power tools though....

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 9 Nov 2012 5:04 pm

Unless the original Sho-Bud pickup is defective I would reinstall it and save the George L pickup for another project. If you want to add second pickup to a steel you should first determine the optimum location which you do by trial and error. Or do you feel lucky today?

Don Light has a kit to add a second pickup to a steel guitar- it uses a Lace USAB bass pickup and requires no routing. You can slide the pickup back and forth to determine the optimum placement and then secure it there. Here is a sound clip demonstrating Jon Light's kit followed by a link to the listing in the For Sale section.

http://picosong.com/wZmg/

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=232778

Practically all steel guitars have only one pickup which is usually mounted fairly close to the bridge so you do need to adjust the controls on your amp to get the sound that you want. (My own theory is that pickup placement was an early form of noise reduction- you'd have to back off on the tone so much that it would eliminate most of the buzzy hissy distortion.)

Steve Ahola

P.S. For the E66 Bob Allen mounts them 15/16" from where the string exits the bridge. I adjust the height to roughly that of a quarter plus a dime- a little bit less than that on the bass strings, a little bit more than that on the high strings.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 10 Nov 2012 4:45 am

Thanks, Bob and Steve, for the mention. Although my own personal prime purpose for the product (PPP,P) is to provide the versatility that one gets in a two-pickup guitar, one customer bought it entirely to remedy a pickup problem with his steel (if I had known this I would have tried to help him replace the pickup but he really wasn't interested in doing so). He was quite happy with the 2pup.

But frankly I dig what John is doing. John--it sounds like you know what you are doing. You are not going in with a chain saw, you have a focus on how to approach it and you will end up with an altered Maverick. The potential $$ impact? You may take a couple hundred $$ off the value. Or you may add value.

I would love to read follow-ups on your project. As I have noted in other discussions of my product, it is my opinion that the difference between the changer pickup and the Lace pickup is much less the difference between the two transducers and much more the difference in where they capture the string vibrations in relation to the harmonic nodes and all.
Please keep us informed.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 10 Nov 2012 12:19 pm

Jon;

What are the dimensions of the pickup in your kit? I'm wondering if it will fit on a 10 string console steel I have.

Thanks!

Steve

P.S. Have you ever tried hooking up your add-on pickup in series with the stock pickup? I would suggest wiring up a pot to bypass the add-on pickup to allow you to go from the stock pickup alone to the full series linkage of both pickups.

Steve Ahola · Post by **Steve Ahola** » 10 Nov 2012 12:20 pm

Steve Ahola wrote:Jon;

What are the dimensions of the pickup in your kit? I'm wondering if it will fit on a 10 string console steel I have.

Steve

P.S. Have you ever tried hooking up your add-on pickup in series with the stock pickup? I would suggest wiring up a pot to bypass the add-on pickup to allow you to go from the stock pickup alone to the full series linkage of both pickups.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 10 Nov 2012 1:45 pm

Here you go, Steve. 4 1/8". The actual max string spacing seems to be a hair over 3".

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Too much treble with a George L pic-up

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