Franklin Value $$$

[jay thompson]

Dan,
When you discover the use of an octave string change,
and a string that is capable of such a change, please let me know.

[Mike Wilson]

If they are that great, I have 2 push/pull D10's I'll trade for one Franklin D10

[Jack Stoner]

I doubt that anyone would have or even try a full octave change. Just that the leverage provided by that makes "standard" changes a little easier.

e.g. I have four changes on both my RKL and RKR, 3 for the E9th and 1 on the C6th on each knee lever. They are only very slightly stiffer than the Left knee levers that only have two changes on each knee lever - raise and lower the E strings on the E9th neck.

[jay thompson]

Jack,
I have 5 pulls on RKL , and 3 on RLR with minimal difference in resistance from the LK's on my LeGrande and LeGrande II. I am not taking issue with the quality or abilities of Franklin guitars, just saying there must be a better analogy for their changers abilities.
An aside, I notice in the pictures of your guitar's undercarriage, the pull rod from the LKR tends to snake it's way to string 4, at the changer. Was the pull rod too long?
Regards,

[Jack Stoner]

Jay, that must be the picture, the rods are not "snaked" or bent.

However, the 1st string raise and the 2nd string raise are connected to the same puller and the 1st string rod is bent so it can connect to the puller.

[jay thompson]

Jack,
Look closely at the second picture, follow the pull rod from the 4th string changer to the right. Sure looks to me like it wraps around a bell crank as it proceeds to the LKR.

[Jack Stoner]

There is a little "slack" on the rod and its not going through a "guide". But, its not purposely bent to go around something. Nothing has changed in the setup of this steel, except adding the 1st string raise, from when it was delivered. The pull rods in a Franklin are 1/8" aluminum.

This has deviated from the original thread subject, not how my steel is built.

[jay thompson]

Jack,
Just expecting perfection.

[Todd Brown]

For that kind of money, I would too. Not to be nit-picky but I see some things that are less than perfect on a few of these picture examples. I would expect the cross strap to be mounted straight at least. I don't think that's asking too much...

[Dan Tyack]

I am not taking issue with the quality or abilities of Franklin guitars, just saying there must be a better analogy for their changers abilities.

Hi Jay,

Jack and I are just repeating Paul Jr.'s explanation of some of the unique attributes of the Franklin changer. It made sense to me, but then I'm not an expert steel mechanic. It may be that there are other guitars that can handle super complex copedents as well as my Franklins, but I don't have any personal experience with them (I've never played a properly set up LeGrande, for instance).

[Tony Williamson]

on my ldg heinz 57 i have 6 pedals and 5 levers. a pedal to raise 1 and 2, all the std stuff, a franklin pedal, a pedal to raise 9 and 7, i can drop 6, drop 2 , drop 9, raise 7, raise 4 and 10, lower 4 and 10,drop 5, raise 1 by itself, dang what more do you want?

[Dan Tyack]

Hi Tony,

The issue of a 'complex change' is when you put a whole bunch of changes on a single pedal. In my example I gave before, I had a single pedal that lowered the 5th, 6th and 10th string a whole tone on the E9th, and on the C6th neck raised the 9th string 2 whole tones, the 8th a tone and a half, and the 7th a whole tone.

That's 6 strings being changed, with a total string movement of over an octave. And with a pedal action that doesn't feel much different than a B pedal on the E9th.

[Jack Stoner]

I have removed my pictures. Too many nit pickers that should not talk as I could also nit pick some items on their guitars.

[Theresa Galbraith]

Jack and Dan,
I think you guys are being to kind. Tod and Tony, if you can build a Franklin better than my dad,why don't you?

[Tony Williamson]

this thing is way out of hand. no one is disputing the fact that franklins are prob THE BEST THERE IS. if i could play as good as mr franklin i would have me one or two. i work in a lab, have two kids, and i cant play well enough to warrant spending that kind of money when my shobud ldg heinz 57 will give me enough to do the rest of my life. i cant build a doghouse. can anyone tell me why i need more complex copedants when i havent mastered the ones i have..theresa? i dont have $10,000. the question was are they worth that much. to someone who is intermediate on steel the answer is no. i have a few costly banjos because ive played one for 43 years. if you are to appreciate a steel for what it can do, you have to be able to coax the stuff out of it. im not demeaning your dads workmanship at all. it would be too great a sacrifice for me and my family to have one of these great instruments. so the answer will still have to be no...for me.

[Dean Holman]

I think if a person wants to pay whatever they feel is worth for having something they really want or it could be something they feel they really need for various reasons, then a person is getting their money's worth. I do feel there is a certain element of paying for name but rightly so when it comes to a Franklin because were talking about an icon not just for steel guitar but also one of the best musician's in the world for any genre of music. I think Franklins are a one of a kind guitar with certain sound that only comes from those guitars. It depends on what works best for the individual. If you don't feel Franklins are worth that kind of money, that's okay. But they don't have to be criticized or knocked down or nit picked. And I'm quite sure Paul and his dad feel there are other good guitars on the market and respect other builders accomplishments and success as I respect the Franklin family. They have all been super nice to me and hard workers that were instilled with good values. To me that alone is worth alot.

[Todd Brown]

Gee, Theresa, I don't recall offering even the slightest hint of the idea that I think I could build a steel that would compete on the level of the Franklin. So your little snarky comment is ridiculous and means nothing to me.

Is there something wrong with expecting nothing less than absolute perfection when we're discussing paying 2x or more what the other top brands cost? I don't think so. Though Jack took his ball and went home, I wasn't even referring to his guitar. I was talking about Evan's. The practically new 2012 built guitar. The cross strap(brace) is mounted crooked. No matter how you look at the pics, it appears to be mounted crooked. Yeah, that's small beans in the big picture, but perfection with even the smallest of details is what I expect for that kinda money. If I spent what he did on that guitar, that one thing, as small as it is, would bother me. Big time!

This is a thread on a steel forum about whether Franklin steels are really worth what they go for, right? So what's up with the people that are saying to the dissenters and those honestly questioning it to basically just shut up, or they come off as this topic shouldn't even be discussed? They come back with sarcastic comments and get offended by the whole thing in general. If you want one just pay the money and shut up. Don't ask any questions. That's a problem. Is that not what the forum is for? Open discussions where opinions are exchanged?

[b0b]

That angle on the cross brace is obviously caused by the position of the camera. Thing often look bent when they're not if the camera is too close to the subject.

[Todd Brown]

I don't know, b0b...From the angle of the camera, the body of the guitar is tilted higher on the right side. But, the brace looks as though it veers left towards the bottom of the pic. As if it is mounted crooked. If the body of the guitar angles up on the right side, the brace should look as though it follows going slightly right as to follow with the body. You follow what I'm saying? It could be the camera being close, but everything else looks to be fairly straight following the body being tilted higher on the right side of the pic. It just sticks out to me as being off...Let's just say, I hope I'm wrong and it's the camera playing tricks on the eyes.

[Chris Lucker]

With respect to the original question in this thread I have limited experience. I called Franklin about having a new D10 made for me and I was quoted a price and a wait time for delivery. I found a used Franklin for $8500. It was 8/6. I bought it. I had it for a while and it was a fine pedal steel. I was not as happy playing it as my less advanced Wraparounds. So when a player called me asking if I would consider selling him my Franklin for $7500 I s said I would sell it, but for the $8500 i had paid. He agreed without hesitation.
So, from my limited experience, a Franklin seems to have a market value of $8500. Take that for what it is worth.

[Bent Romnes]

I found it ludicrous to think that Paul Franklin would have mounted a cross brace crooked so I measured on the screen and here is what I came up with:
Between 2 fixed points, disregarding the edges of the pic:it is 83mm from cross brace to cross shaft for LKL, at both ends of cross shaft.
Looking at the cross brace and the left edge of the pic the measurements are 51 and 53 mm. So it is obvious to me that the camera was simply held at an angle when the pic was taken.

[Brian McGaughey]

This is a thread on a steel forum about whether Franklin steels are really worth what they go for, right? So what's up with the people that are saying to the dissenters and those honestly questioning it to basically just shut up, or they come off as this topic shouldn't even be discussed? They come back with sarcastic comments and get offended by the whole thing in general. If you want one just pay the money and shut up. Don't ask any questions. That's a problem. Is that not what the forum is for? Open discussions where opinions are exchanged?

Todd, with all due respect, it may be your attitude that is pushing people to a point of frustration. Maybe in your neck of the woods folks communicate with the edge that you have, but I'm not used to it, at least on a forum such as this.

Considering you know my mindset with regard to owning a Franklin, I will take the liberty to assume to know your mindset in the postition you've taken on this thread and say that you're baiting people (in a very sophisticated manner I'll grant you), and many have bit.

Your position is clear with regard to Franklin guitars price, and all non-pros who own them.

[b0b]

I found it ludicrous to think that Paul Franklin would have mounted a cross brace crooked so I measured on the screen and here is what I came up with:
Between 2 fixed points, disregarding the edges of the pic:it is 83mm from cross brace to cross shaft for LKL, at both ends of cross shaft.
Looking at the cross brace and the left edge of the pic the measurements are 51 and 53 mm. So it is obvious to me that the camera was simply held at an angle when the pic was taken.

<center>And oh my gosh, the cabinet gets measurably wider on the left side of the picture!

How can anyone even consider such inferior workmanship?



For the record, I'd be proud to own a Franklin like the one pictured.

There's no better builder in world, in my opinion.
</center>

Considering you know my mindset with regard to owning a Franklin, I will take the liberty to assume to know your mindset in the postition you've taken on this thread and say that you're baiting people (in a very sophisticated manner I'll grant you), and many have bit.

It's called trolling.

[Tony Rankin]

I think if a person wants to pay whatever they feel is worth for having something they really want or it could be something they feel they really need for various reasons, then a person is getting their money's worth. I do feel there is a certain element of paying for name but rightly so when it comes to a Franklin because were talking about an icon not just for steel guitar but also one of the best musician's in the world for any genre of music. I think Franklins are a one of a kind guitar with certain sound that only comes from those guitars. It depends on what works best for the individual. If you don't feel Franklins are worth that kind of money, that's okay. But they don't have to be criticized or knocked down or nit picked. And I'm quite sure Paul and his dad feel there are other good guitars on the market and respect other builders accomplishments and success as I respect the Franklin family. They have all been super nice to me and hard workers that were instilled with good values. To me that alone is worth alot.

Very well said and I agree with Dean 100%.

[Dave Mudgett]

I own a 1980 D-10 Franklin with a pair of the original handmade single-coil pickups. It is a remarkable guitar. I have some other great steels that I also use plenty. With this said, nothing plays or sounds quite like this Franklin. I would never phrase this as 'better' or 'worse', but the Franklin is distinct, both from the point of view of sound and playing feel.

I've torn down and built back up a bunch of steels, including the Franklin. When I got it, it had obviously been rode hard and put away wet by the guy I bought it from, that's just the way he rolled. The changer was badly gummed up, and gradually, no amount of lubricating helped. I didn't know anything about working on steels back then, but after I had a few years in working on some simpler guitars, I finally got the nerve to tackle the Franklin, which probably hadn't been touched in the 30 years since being built. All I did was tear it down, soak the changer and pull-train parts in solvent, do a basic cleaning, and put it back together with the changes I wanted. All but one of the changes went in easily, but Mr. Franklin adjusted that long change when I was visiting a few years ago, which brought it right into line.

All I can say is that this guitar has a unique sound and feel, which I love. The pedal and lever action can be made startlingly easy and short, but with appropriate firmness if desired (and I prefer). The changer was clearly hand-machined, and is very, very precise even after 30+ years of very hard use and, I suspect, even abuse.

Final point ['you' is editorial you, not anybody specific]. If you have never owned or even played a Franklin, then you really don't have anything useful to contribute about the pluses and minuses of Franklin guitars to this thread, and your opinion should be considered with that in mind, lest we get all agitated about some of these comments. In my opinion, there is no guitar that is for everybody, as goes for anything. So if this guitar isn't for you, that should not bother anybody. As far as worth, that is strictly market-driven, and no amount of whining and wheezing will change that. Suffice to say that mine is not for sale, and I wouldn't get my hopes up waiting for me to change my mind.