Switching to Universal

Donald Boyajian · Post by **Donald Boyajian** » 19 Sep 2012 11:41 am

When I started, I didn't know what was what...and my GFI S10 just happened to be at a store for a good price. It's rare to come across a PSG in upstate NY, so I snagged it.

I'm going to be get a new guitar soon..because I really want to start pushing myself into the C6 sound. I'd love to be playing some straight ahead jazz on PSG down the road. However, I feel like a universal tuning (maybe Zane King's E9/6) really makes the most sense in terms of pushing myself on the instrument and blending genres.

It seems that a lot of people got into the D10 because that's what was available or popular at the time. However, if you could go back at start all over, would you do a universal instead? Are you kind of getting the best of both E9 and C6 with universal, or is it kind of the worst of both? Thanks!

Best,
Don

Also, how much of a pain is the transition?

Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 19 Sep 2012 11:49 am

Universal is fairly easy. I'd get Jeff Newman's U12 DVD to get started, Larry

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 19 Sep 2012 1:53 pm

I would consider a uni if starting from scratch.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Sep 2012 2:04 pm

I think if I had to do it over again, with the limited educational material available for universal when I was getting started, I would still choose D 10. But if I were starting today, with more and better universal material available, I might very well start on universal.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Sep 2012 2:04 pm

[deleted repeat post]

Sam Conomo · Post by **Sam Conomo** » 19 Sep 2012 5:16 pm

if i had my time again ,i would start on the uni for sure,i am getting my E9th converted to a short uni.
go the uni,s
sam.

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 19 Sep 2012 5:34 pm

I had a choice.
When I got into PSG, I was playing T8 nonPSG. My main tunings at the time were 6th tunings.
A SU12 Uni made perfect sense.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 19 Sep 2012 6:10 pm

I started on an S10 E9 then got a U12. Once I was able to play a bit I moved up to a D10.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Sep 2012 5:27 pm

I'm diggin' the Bb6 Uni, myself

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 20 Sep 2012 5:53 pm

I think the UNI extended E9th 12 is interesting, and i have been thinking along those lines....The Low B, G#, E, and tune the 9th to a C# would be interesting. I'm not up for relearning a whole new method at age 45, but starting out fresh i'd do the MSA thing Bb 12.... I'm a big Maurice Anderson fan in every way.

Brother Lane's got the idea!

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 20 Sep 2012 6:33 pm

i think some kind of single 12 that you can develop your ability to play anything on makes sense to me. most likely some form of universal 6/9.

but it's kinda 40 yrs too late for me...but i keep thinking about it.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 20 Sep 2012 7:30 pm

I made one little tweak to my U-12:I put the low B string on the A pedal.Presto,there's another whole E9 setup an octave below the one everybody knows.I don't do a lot of B6th,but it's there if I feel adventurous,plus I can get big wide chords as well as do faux baritone.I don't miss the low G#.If I had it to do over,I'd start with a Universal.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 20 Sep 2012 11:47 pm

the biggest downside to the universal now is that there are so many new changes that have become standard.
if you want to keep them all and not give some up, the guitars underside gets seriously crowded. My Bb6 combines the [analog of] the D# and F levers in one and will still end up with 9 or 10 pedals and 7 knee levers, and I still have to give up a change or 2. and I don't have a Franklin drop.
in preliminary discussions on having my next guitar made, a few well known makers have just said they don't want to work that hard. in my experience hooking up the MSA, I have to say I don't blame them, 10 and 6 under one neck is HARD!!

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 21 Sep 2012 12:23 am

Dave, do you pedal to C# on the low B ? I ordered my current guitar with the A pedal lowering the 12th string to A. Great moves available there, too...

Will Cowell · Post by **Will Cowell** » 21 Sep 2012 4:53 am

Larry, "not up to learning a whole new tuning at age 45"? You old, old man! Spare a thought for us poor so-and-so's starting in their late 50's. Brain cells? What brain cells?

I'd go with a Uni if I could get one. I love country, but already I keep trying to move in the direction of jazz chords and a U12 is lighter than a D10!

Ken Metcalf · Post by **Ken Metcalf** » 21 Sep 2012 5:03 am

A U-12 in split cases is a wonderful thing.

Dave O'Brien · Post by **Dave O'Brien** » 21 Sep 2012 5:42 am

I've been very happy with Uni for 20 years now often playing 5 nights a week. I do like a D-10 once in while just for fun. I truly think I can get more music out of the U-12. I am also a proponent of the E's on the left!

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 21 Sep 2012 5:30 pm

I missed that too old at 45. At 48 and 10 months and switching to Bb6, I'll pretend I still missed it.
I'm too busy living and learning to gather dust

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 22 Sep 2012 12:18 pm

Olli Haavisto wrote:Dave, do you pedal to C# on the low B ? I ordered my current guitar with the A pedal lowering the 12th string to A. Great moves available there, too...

I love dropping string 12 from B to A on the A-pedal. Don Burrows from BMI turned me on to that change.

Lane Gray wrote:...At 48 and 10 months...

Hey Lane, I'll be 49 on 12/10.
We must be about the same age.
You should wheel up here sometime and check out Christopher Woitach on his Bb6. He's been playing about a year and is already great.
One of my steels is also setup as a Bb6.

I started on an S10 3x1, but went to a Jeff Newman thing after a year or so playing with a band, and moved to an S12U.
'Been plaing S12U's since early 80's.

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 22 Sep 2012 1:25 pm

consider the opposing positions of two forum members: lane mentioning the many pedal changes needed to allow all the specific current and older standard licks, and b0b our leader tending towards the simpler minimalist 8 string tuning. i appreciate both points of view. i predict that finally and thankfully, players will move towards the personal setup: trimming hardware back to their specific needs that allow them unique style while still able to incorporate all necessary chord possibilities . steel historically has seen ralph mooney, lloyd green, norm hamlett, weldon...all have distinctive styles and limited changes compared to many modern players, yet their music is as inspirational and enjoyable as anyone. bobby black can play more on an 8 string lapsteel.

i'd like to hear more unique personality and less of everyone playing everyone else's licks. robert randolph deserves respect in this regard. and russ pahl and his two pedal steel.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 22 Sep 2012 1:38 pm

I started on an S10 E9 then got a D10. Once I was able to play a bit I moved up to a U12.

Micky Byrne · Post by **Micky Byrne** » 22 Sep 2012 1:53 pm

I started on an S-10 in 1970 till 1977, then got an S-12 extended E 9th...had that converted to a universal in 1982. In 2003 got a new universal, and I'm staying that way always

Micky Byrne

Mike DiAlesandro · Post by **Mike DiAlesandro** » 22 Sep 2012 4:56 pm

chris ivey wrote:consider the opposing positions of two forum members: lane mentioning the many pedal changes needed to allow all the specific current and older standard licks, and b0b our leader tending towards the simpler minimalist 8 string tuning. i appreciate both points of view. i predict that finally and thankfully, players will move towards the personal setup: trimming hardware back to their specific needs that allow them unique style while still able to incorporate all necessary chord possibilities . steel historically has seen ralph mooney, lloyd green, norm hamlett, weldon...all have distinctive styles and limited changes compared to many modern players, yet their music is as inspirational and enjoyable as anyone. bobby black can play more on an 8 string lapsteel.

i'd like to hear more unique personality and less of everyone playing everyone else's licks. robert randolph deserves respect in this regard. and russ pahl and his two pedal steel.

Perfectly stated chris

Roual Ranes · Post by **Roual Ranes** » 24 Sep 2012 7:28 pm

If I could play like Reece, I would switch to a Bb6 Uni.

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 24 Sep 2012 8:36 pm

I submit that if you could think like Reece (a prerequisite for playing like him), the tuning and copedent wouldn't matter.
Reece and Russ Wever knock me out. An amazing mix of high levels of cerebral and soulful.

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Switching to Universal

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