Hilton Wall Warts

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 Aug 2012 8:10 pm

First off, DON'T TELL ME TO BUY A TELONICS BECAUSE IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. I tried out a friends Telonics pedal and was not impressed enough to spend $500 for one.

Well, I just had my 2nd Hilton Wall Wart fail in a little under 1 year. Last August I had one fail, and this July I had one fail. Both times I checked the output voltage and they show less than 1 volt output, but a good one shows just a tad over 24 volts (I am borrowing a friends wall wart because he quit using his Hilton in favor of a Telonics). Has anyone found a good reasonable replacement? I don't feel like spending the $28 or so for one from Keith when I can expect it to crap out in a year. I would like to stay away from the Phihong crap.

Also, I have a Goodrich LDR2 (thank goodness I carry it with me to gigs, seeing as how I never know when the Hilton is going to shut down because of the wall wart). It has a wall wart with the same output voltage (24v DC) but with a lower amps value. The Hilton wall wart says .625a and the Goodrich says .42a. I'm not sure what the Hilton actually draws. Would the Goodrich one work for the Hilton without blowing up a pedal or wall wart?

I really like the Hilton pedal, but this wall wart situation has me a little concerned. The Hilton is a low profile which is what I prefer, and the Goodrich is a regular height pedal. So, I would rather just find a good reliable wall wart for the Hilton rather than use the Goodrich.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 13 Aug 2012 8:44 pm

$28 for a wall wart. how much would you be paying for the crappy pots that are out there now?

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 Aug 2012 9:03 pm

True, but the compelling reason for a Hilton (or any electronic pedal) is not having to constantly replace parts.

My beef is not the pedal, but the unreliable wall wart.

Howard Smith · Post by **Howard Smith** » 13 Aug 2012 10:17 pm

Richard I know Radio Shack has a universal exteral power supply (Wall Wart) that will work for various requirements. Might be worth stopping at Radio Shack and ask and see if theirs will match up. Although its frustrating to hear about your problem, because I'm using a Hilton Pedal also, but no problems as yet. I always have a power strip that protects my gear from any large electrical spikes getting into my equipment as well.
Also I would let Keith know directly whats going one with your pedal and power supply, and see what he has to say.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 13 Aug 2012 10:21 pm

My power strips also protect for surges, etc. None of the other wall warts I have plugged into the same strip ever have problems. I also usually use a power stabilizer/isolation transformer so the voltage to my gear stays real close to 120 volts.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 14 Aug 2012 2:42 am

Digikey would be my choice to find a replacement.

http://www.digikey.com/

There aren't many posts about power supply problems with Hilton's. There are a couple that I recall being posted on here but they were for bad/frayed power supply cables and not the actual power supply.

If you are using a surge protector power strip that has ever stopped a surge it is no longer any good and should be replaced. Once it sacrifices itself for a surge it needs to be replaced. I know you say that most of the time you are using a voltage regulator but the times you are not something could have happened.

Bud Angelotti · Post by **Bud Angelotti** » 14 Aug 2012 4:26 am

Rich - Try here ->> http://www.parts-express.com/

Close to the bottom you'll see sales > clearence center.

That might work.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 14 Aug 2012 4:42 am

I bought one years ago at Radio Shack, not because the Hilton one failed but because I accidentally damaged it. The R.S. one has served me fine for many years with no problems. One warning, though: Keith has changed the amperage of his pedal a few times over the years so make sure you're getting the right one to match the pedal you have.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Aug 2012 6:51 am

Jack. How can you tell if a strip has stopped a surge? The breaker has never tripped. And the one I use to plug the power supply into is fairly new (maybe 1 -2 months) and was not a cheap one. I got it because I have 3 wall warts I have to plug in (for the Hilton, My RP155, and my Distortion pedal) and I used to run the cables from them back to the strip by my amp. This created a trip hazzard (no pun intended), so I figured a large cable running from near my amp to under my seat would be a little easier to see than the several small cables. Also, if there was a surge, wouldn't also take out my other 2 wall warts for other equipment?

In my original post I posted the following paragraph:

Also, I have a Goodrich LDR2 (thank goodness I carry it with me to gigs, seeing as how I never know when the Hilton is going to shut down because of the wall wart). It has a wall wart with the same output voltage (24v DC) but with a lower amps value. The Hilton wall wart says .625a and the Goodrich says .42a. I'm not sure what the Hilton actually draws. Would the Goodrich one work for the Hilton without blowing up a pedal or wall wart?

What do you think about using the Goodrich supply in a pinch?

Again, I absolutely love the Hilton pedal and will go to my grave using it, if I can keep a working wall wart for it.

And, just because there haven't been posts on here about power supply failures, doesn't mean there aren't any. I don't believe I posted about it with the first one that failed. The friend whose power supply I have borrowed, had one fail and bought 2 from Keith (1 for a spare). He gave me the spare when my first one failed and I am now using the other one.

And, I have had wall warts for other effects pedals fail too, as well as my guitar player. I just expect them to last more than a year.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Aug 2012 7:07 am

Jack... A little clarification on the bad surge protector issue. This is not to question your expertise in electronics (I have nothing but respect for your knowledge), so this is just so I better understand it.

If there is a surge, I assume the breaker in the strip should pop. After you reset it, shouldn't it be good to go? If not, why don't they just make the strip with a fusible link that opens up when it gets too much voltage and renders the strip unusable (had a fusible link pop in a car I used to have and had to replace it after it popped. What other internal damage to strip takes place. I have never had a breaker in a power strip pop, so I assume there have been no serious surges that have gone through it unless the breakers are no good or not hooked up.
And, wouldn't there be liability issues for the manufacturer if their product stopped the surge, then no longer stopped surges and one happened and took out your computer, amp, effects, or human, or whatever is plugged into it. I have never seen a surge protector package say you have to dispose of the surge protector after it stops a surge, just to reset the breaker.

Michael Hummel · Post by **Michael Hummel** » 14 Aug 2012 9:29 am

Richard wrote:

And, I have had wall warts for other effects pedals fail too, as well as my guitar player. I just expect them to last more than a year.

Just what happens when the guitar player fails?

Mike

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 14 Aug 2012 10:16 am

Here is the story from the horse's mouth:

I have been using the Phihong power supplies since 2009, with excellent results and few failures. I have learned a few things over the last 15 years building guitar pedals, with over 19,000 in use world wide. Here are some of the things you need to know; A regulated power supply is not a simple transformer. A regulated power supply has electronic parts inside, whereas a transformer is just copper wire wound around a magnet. You should turn off a regulated power supply when not in use. Almost all regulated power supply failures come from damage,or stress, on the power cord. Power cords are tripped over, walked on, and crushed with pack a seats. The wires inside power cords are small. Many times the power cord looks good on the outside, when wires are damaged inside. It may not be "YOU" who tripped over the power cord, it could be your drummer, when you were not looking.
I do not warranty power supplies. Now about replacements: The Hilton pedal requires 24 volts DC regulated. The tip size is 2.1X5.5mm, and the tip is positive. The Hilton pedal only draws 30.8 mili-amps current. I charge $24.00 for a power supply plus $6.00 priority shipping. Radio Shack has turned into a phone store,not a parts house. If you want a wide choice of parts,the two biggest sources are Digi Key and Mouser. Google these names and their web sites will come up. You can order power supplies directly from them. Before you order any power supply for any piece of equipment, you need to understand the words "regulated" and "non regulated". Knowing the meaning of these two words can mean the difference in something working or not working. It could also determine if you smell smoke or do not smell smoke. Hope this information helps.

Charlie Thompson · Post by **Charlie Thompson** » 14 Aug 2012 10:37 am

Keith This brings up a question I've had for a while. I have A Hilton VP with the big power chord and large plug transfomer. I love it and it has never failed me. I bought another one simply to have a backup but this one came with the skinny cable and smaller wart. Within 2 weeks the smaller wart came apart twice just from taking it in and out of the seat. I'm just wondering if you could still make the one like I purchased originally. Thanks

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 14 Aug 2012 11:14 am

keith. i have two hilton pedals with the large tformer that the cord to the pedal is hard wired in.

what am i looking at if that PS fails...pricewise???

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Aug 2012 11:20 am

Michael said:

Just what happens when the guitar player fails?

Oh my, we don't want to go there.

Thanks for the info Keith. I am aware of the regulated vs unregulated power supply issue. Plus, my guitar player is an electronics engineer, so I get a lot of info from him. While he has not examined the bad unit, he believes the unit is as you say, not equipped with a transformer and uses solid state devices and believes the SCR probably went bad. He has seen this in One Spot power supplies.

Keith... I am not in any way questioning the quality of your pedal. It has never let me down. In fact, if the Hilton pedal itself ever gives out on me (and honestly, I don't think it will), I will have no problem buying a new one to replace it. The Phihong power supply is the issue. I have heard from more than a few by email and PM that have had power supplies fail and they just get a replacement and keep quiet. My Goodrich LDR2 also uses a Phihong wall wart and the original one did fail on me and Goodrich replaced it N/C. I am not looking for or expecting you to replace it for free. I am just looking for a better quality power supply that will last me more than a year. Based on my experience, I don't think Phihong is that unit.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 14 Aug 2012 11:28 am

Richard, although I've worked in electronics for many years, I'm no expert in the power field. I do know that most of the power strips, unless you get a commercial "high dollar" one most only have "MOV" (Metal Oxide Varistor) as the main element in surge protection. Depending on the line issue (surge, lightning hit, etc) the MOV's can fail and when that happens the surge protector is done for, however if the internal fuse (in some) does not blow you many never know. Some connect a pilot light on the surge protector to indicate if the MOV's are working or not, others there is no indicator so you don't know if its really good or not.

Bottom line, unless the protector has some type of display or indicator to say if its good or bad, you don't know.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 14 Aug 2012 2:02 pm

The Phihong power supplies I use will work on voltages from 100 to 240 volts AC. They work on hertz from 47 to 63. Most of Europe is 220 volts at 50 hertz. I have sent many of these power supplies to Europe, and other places, where the voltages are much more than the 120 volts AC in the United States. Here is my suggestion to try: Wrap the cord coming out of the power supply in a small ball and tie it. Put the power supply in a place where the power supply, and cord wrapped in a ball, can not be tripped over, or smashed. Then use an extension cord to connect it. The extension cord then would take the abuse of tripping and smashing. If your power supply then fails you will know if tripping or smashing caused the problems. While looking through the distributors Digi Key and Mouser--if you see a power supply better than I am using, please let me know. I will check it out. Be advised I have done my homework in checking out power supplies, but am always on the lookout for something better.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Aug 2012 3:14 pm

Thanks Keith. I have a strip I set under my seat that I plug wall warts into. And like your suggestion, I use velcro tie wraps to contain the cables so they don't stray out from under the seat. So, they don't ever get exposed to a trip hazard.

I am almost positive that the unit didn't go because of a power surge. The 2 other power supplies plugged into the same strip have never had problems. I just think they gave out.

Both times, I was playing outside. Coincidence I am sure. I would suspect heat took them out, but the power supplies were dead on first hook up. My routine is to get everything set up and plugged in and test for sound immediately. Both times I got no sound at all. Switching to my backup Goodrich LDR2 confirmed the problem at the volume pedal, and that being the power supply.

Jack... I spent a good part of the day researching power surges and power strips. Nowhere did I find that after a power surge you have to replace your strip. Even my guitar player/Electronics engineer has never heard of that. But, I did read a lot about the MOV units and don't see how it can even keep working after the surge hits them. I would suspect they would have to be replaced for sure. Several sites I visited recommended replacing them every 2 years whether they encountered a surge or not.

I saw a good Tripp Lite and a good Belkin power surge protector strip that has lights to confirm the power surge protection is still working and another light to let you know the ground is good. I think I may get one of those for the wall warts under my seat. A little expensive, but probably worth it.

Keith... Since your pedal only draws 30.8ma, I am assuming I can use the power supply from my Goodrich LDR2 with the Hilton in a pinch seeing as how it is rated for .42amps. Is this possible?

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 14 Aug 2012 8:47 pm

Richard, I do not know if your LDR2 power supply is a regulated power supply, or just a non regulated transformer. .42amps is 420 mili amps. It only takes 30.8 mili amps to power the Hilton pedal. I am guessing the Goodrich people used a unregulated power supply. At the time the LDR2 pedal came out the small switching type regulated power supplies were just getting started. The best way to tell if a power supply is regulated is to test with a multi-meter set on voltage. For example: A regulated 9 volt DC power supply will read close to 9 volts DC. A non regulated 9 volt DC power supply will read somewhere between 15 to 18 volts. Why--because you must have at least 2 volts over the intended voltage when you regulate voltage. Most all electronics uses regulated voltage. It is either regulated by a regulated power supply, or a voltage regulator is on the circuit board. Richard,the failure rate of the Phihong power supplies seems low to me, or I would not be using them. Yes, sometimes I do have people who have failed power supplies, but not often. Most of the standard guitar players use pedal boards and power all of their different pedals from a single multi-port power supply. Like the VooDoo multi-port power supplies. Many guitar players power all their pedals on their pedal board with these multi-port power supplies. The VooDoo power supply will output just about any voltage a pedal could use, 9 volts, 12 volts,18volts and 24 volts. If you are using several pedals you might look into powering them all with one multi-port power supply. If you look at the big parts houses, Digi Key and Mouser, they have hundreds of power supplies for sale. You might try a different power supply from one of the parts houses. As you said, you have a friend who is an engineer--maybe he could help you pick out a differnt power supply from Digi Key or Mouser. If you get one you like better let me know and I will check it out.

Keith Hilton · Post by **Keith Hilton** » 14 Aug 2012 9:24 pm

Now to answer Charlie T, and Bill H.
I used the big motorola power supply from the year 2000 to 2009. These were the power supply that attached to the pedals. Motorola quit making them. You might ask why. Simple reason: Most all of the big power supply makers went to the switching power supplies. The old motorola power supply was a transformer based power supply that had filtering and regulation. Being transformer based meant it had a lot of copper wire, and copper prices went through the roof. Plus the unit is heavy,because the copper is wrapped around a iron core. In the last few years shipping costs also went through the roof. Shipping cost is based off of weight. The modern switching power supplies being made today do not contain a lot of copper wire and they are light. That is why almost all power supplies made today are the little switching power supplies. I still have some of the old power supplies saved back for people who need them. I get $24.00 plus $6.00 shipping on them. I might add that these were medical grade power supplies, that would cost me at least $150.00 now days-- IF I could even get them. One other thing I need to mention. I caught HELL for the 9 years I used the power supply with the attached cord. Everyone wanted something that plugged in. NO ONE CONSIDERED these facts: You always bring the right power supply with your pedal. You never plug in the wrong thing. You never lose the power supply. The power cord on these old motorola power supplies was so strong and stiff I know I could hang a 250 pound man by his neck and the cord would not break. AGAIN I CAUGHT HELL FOR THE CORD BEING SO STIFF AND STRONG--people longed for a less stiff flexible power cord. Getting back to me having a replacement if you need one--the answer is yes.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 14 Aug 2012 11:28 pm

Thanks again Keith. The Goodrich power supply is also a Phihong and it says it is a switching power supply just as the one you use does. I have tested it before and it tests out a little above 24v. I will check again, but 24.4 volts seems to ring a bell.

Thanks for the info on the VooDoo. I have a Dunlop DC Brick, but it doesn't output 24vdc, only 9 and 18vdc. I used it when I was running Boss and Digitech style stomp boxes. But I now use a Damage Control distortion device and a Digitech RP155. I believe each has a different voltage requirement, but I will check them out tomorrow. The DC Brick does introduce a hum into the signal chain as does the One Spot. I would think the Voodoo might also. I had to go back to batteries in the Boss type pedals to get rid of the nasty hum and buzz.

Just read your post on the Motorola transformers. The power supply for my Damage Control Liquid Blues pedal is a big heavy unit that had a cord that goes to the wall and another that goes to the unit. I suspect this is the transformer type you mentioned. The Damage control unit has 2 12AX7 tubes in it and might need more current to drive it, don't know much about that. I actually like these better than the wall wart type simply because most AC outlets, be them on the wall or on power strips, can't accommodate 2 wall warts next to each other because of space issues. And those things you mentioned that people bitched at you about are things I like in a power supply. Especially since you never know when you need to hang a 250 pound heckler in the audience.

EDIT: Couldn't sleep. The Damage Control Liquid Blues takes 9 volts AC and has a class 2 transformer with cords coming out for both the unit and the wall plug; The Digitech RP 155 is 9 volts (I assume DC - xfmr doesn't state the type of voltage in or out) and has a class 2 transformer (wall wart). I don't think I will have any luck finding a unit like a VooDoo that will power all of these units.

Steve Hitsman · Post by **Steve Hitsman** » 15 Aug 2012 3:49 am

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cin ... phQa9cbAi8

I've been using one of these for over a year now without a problem. You'd better hurry, they're scheduled to be discontinued but it looks like Mouser has 5 in stock.

I had two of the Phihongs go south on me and it seemed the problem stemmed from the contacts for the universal clip.

Only $13.89!

Charlie Thompson · Post by **Charlie Thompson** » 15 Aug 2012 4:00 am

Well Keith you never caught hell from me. As I said the earlier version has worked perfectly I guessing around 10 years now. Also, I like the fact that the cable is attached.
Interestingly last night I tried to use the one with the small wall wart and it doesn't work - guess I need a new PS.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 15 Aug 2012 7:56 am

Keith, is it possible to convert the later plug-in type pedal to install the Motorola PS? I have one pedal of each type and I prefer the Motorola.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 15 Aug 2012 8:07 am

Or, I have seen some power supplies that would work on Digikey and Mouser's sites that have the transformer similar to like what you get with a laptop. I would rather have a straight 2 or 3 prong plug to go into the outlet on a wall or power strip, have the transformer just lay on the floor under my seat and have the cable then run to my device. I imagine that if the specs are comparable, it should be OK. Right???

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