Shobud Superpro question

Mark Draycott R.I.P. · Post by **Mark Draycott R.I.P.** » 20 Jul 2012 7:28 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:
Mark Draycott wrote:My '76 Pro II Custom has no pot metal on it. It's bone stock, all original. SN 10802
If it's a stock '76 it's got pot metal fingers.

Wow..thanks for the info, I had know idea. The info here is great. After reading through this thread, I am learning alot about the Sho Buds. The fingers are the slotted type.

Tony Williamson · Post by **Tony Williamson** » 20 Jul 2012 7:29 pm

pot metal, but ive got a ton of replacements for it if something breaks. this is my stay at home guitar.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 Jul 2012 7:59 pm

Mark Draycott wrote:
Chris LeDrew wrote:
Mark Draycott wrote:My '76 Pro II Custom has no pot metal on it. It's bone stock, all original. SN 10802
If it's a stock '76 it's got pot metal fingers.
Wow..thanks for the info, I had know idea. The info here is great. After reading through this thread, I am learning alot about the Sho Buds. The fingers are the slotted type.

Mark, I've owned several mid-'70s Pro 1's with pot metal fingers, and never had a problem. Great sounding and playing steels.

As Skip said, if they're slots they're pot metal. Easy way to know.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 20 Jul 2012 8:07 pm

so what kind of problems could happen with the pot metal fingers is it just wearing out.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 Jul 2012 8:32 pm

May have complained about peeling and grooves forming in the pot metal fingers where the string passes over the bridge area.

It is generally considered that the older pin fingers contributed to better sustain and tone due to the superior metal. My older 'Buds with the pins always sounded richer and had better sustain than my 'Buds with the slots. But there are other factors at play, such as body materials/construction and undercarriage design, that contribute to the superior tone of the older pre-Superpro era 'Buds.

As I said, though, my newer 'Buds always sounded great...just not quite as great as my Professional and Crossover era 'Buds. There is something ethereal and hard to define about a rack and barrel 'Bud. Heavenly tone.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 20 Jul 2012 8:39 pm

Well at first I was looking into maybe a proffesional model but I dont know a lot about that one so I started looking at later models because they could have more of a modern setup and had more modern mechanics.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 20 Jul 2012 8:57 pm

Daniel McKee wrote:Well at first I was looking into maybe a proffesional model but I dont know a lot about that one so I started looking at later models because they could have more of a modern setup and had more modern mechanics.

Yes, the age-old trade-off with 'Buds.

Tony Williamson · Post by **Tony Williamson** » 20 Jul 2012 9:16 pm

I had a williams undercarriage put under my shobud ldg out of necessity..telonics pickup..coop changer...etc...no pot metal. Its not much of a bud anymore..but oh the thing it has become. Still...I don't want to change my superpro much. Its a new old stock steel. It has zero wear period..I like buds...but williams..emmons..zum...fessy..msa...great choices. Buds ain't the only dog on the porch.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 20 Jul 2012 9:42 pm

I havent written off the later shobuds but I dont think the potmetal guitars are for me however I am still going to consider maybe an early 70s model maybe a professional or early pro 2 having modern mechanics is not something I have to have because if anything I think these guitars do sound best however I would like to try a more modern guitar since the few i have tried out seemed ok to me.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 21 Jul 2012 5:31 am

I don't have any patience for old and cranky undercarriages either. That's why I got a Jackson. Best of both worlds.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 21 Jul 2012 8:27 am

If your heart is set on a Sho~Bud, then don't run away from the Super Pro. It's a good guitar once you change the knee lever brackets. The rest of the pot metal pars are rarely a problem. They sound great, especially after I put Bill Lawrence 710 pickups in the one I had.

I actually like the rack and barrel Bud's. But they are a little work to get to play nice. I think my favorite would be the 2-hole pullers with the barrels, although I have never played one. I have heard great things about them.

For those that really know me, it's probably strange to see me recommend the Super-Pro as I have said in the past that is was the worst guitar I ever owned. That is true (I have owned some awesome guitars in my day), but that is because of the knee lever brackets breaking and not being aware of any replacements for them Every time I broke one, I had to take one from another lever, which quickly got me down below the number of levers I wanted. So, if I wanted to use the Bud on a gig, I would have to take a lever or two off my Kline (they both used hex cross shafts) and put them on the Bud. A real pain in the butt, so I stopped using the Bud on gigs.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 21 Jul 2012 10:31 am

Chris LeDrew wrote:I don't have any patience for old and cranky undercarriages either. That's why I got a Jackson. Best of both worlds.

Richard Sinkler wrote:I actually like the rack and barrel Bud's. But they are a little work to get to play nice. I think my favorite would be the 2-hole pullers with the barrels, although I have never played one. I have heard great things about them.

I have a two-hole pullers-with-barrels LDG, and the undercarriage is not cranky in the least. It equals or exceeds my more modern guitars for stability. After initial setup of the barrels, they are not a problem at all. I haven't had to mess with a barrel in several years, just tune at the end plate--and that very seldom. As I once posted, I misplaced the Allen wrench for endplate tuning for a couple of months, but it was OK because I found I didn't need it--every time I checked the pulls they were unchanged.

The only shortcoming of the design I see is that with only one pull rod attachment point at each end, little can be done to tweak the timing of pulls (Ricky Davis has pointed out that adjusting the return springs can have some effect on this, but in my experience not a lot). But I personally don't find that a major factor.

I agree with all those who have said the Super Pro is a good guitar with the one Achilles heel of pot metal knee lever brackets. I can't speak for the guys who make replacement brackets, but my guess is the cost of a few brackets should not be a deterrent. When one snapped on mine in '84 or '85 I opted to replace them all with aluminum preventively, and I still use it at least half the time because it plays and sounds great, to my taste.

Daniel McKee · Post by **Daniel McKee** » 21 Jul 2012 10:31 am

I think I would be fine with a super pro I mean if one comes up with a good price on it I am for sure gonna think about it but I just want whatever I get to last a long time and replacing the knee levers wouldnt be a problem but Im not looking to invest a lot of money.As of now I play one of the later shobud mavericks and yes it has the pot metal fingers which havent been a problem but the changer doesent have as many parts as an all pull and even after the maverick gets all the bad comments I would play it anywhere its been a real good guitar but I am ready to get something a little better mostly so I can have a few more knee levers I only have three on my shobud.

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 22 Jul 2012 11:34 am

Daniel McKee wrote:I think I would be fine with a super pro I mean if one comes up with a good price on it I am for sure gonna think about it but I just want whatever I get to last a long time and replacing the knee levers wouldnt be a problem but Im not looking to invest a lot of money.

You may find yourself upside down pretty quick trying to upgrade a potmetal guitar. I do make the replacement parts up to the fingers, which I'm part way there.

Here's our knee lever kits:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 32d91de58d

Concerning Super Pro era Shobuds, along with some fine comments here, the pedal rod pullers seem to be the next culprit to wear out, with knee lever brackets and knee levers being the top of the list for replacement. The quick fix, folks, is to swap the worn parts with parts that get less playing traffic--that's how you squeeze more time out of these babies. Sooner or later, you will probably start the upgrade proccess, but the above will buy you some time.

The fingers are usually workable(I know how to rejuvenate them to squeeze more life out of them.), but there is a part of the finger, a cheap metal tab that wears a groove right into the potmetal part of the finger, as well as the rivets will wallow out, on the fingers with the most traffic. But, considering these guitars are around 25 years old, that's not bad at all. Rejunenate those fingers and run another 25 years.

The endplates, keyheads, and changer-housings are cheap potmetal castings. Try to polish them, and if you get a little too aggresive, they turn into orange-peel pits--thousands of them.

The cabinets on the Super Pro were scaled down to thinner wood in an attempt to shed a little weight. There are a few Super Pros that DO sound good(giving credit where credit is due), but the ones that came through MY shop, sounded like strings over a carboard box, compared to the earlier heavy full sized cabinet 'buds of earlier models. But there ARE a few Super Pros that do sound good. But realize, the earlier large cabinet Shobuds are where the signature Shobud sound comes from. Of course if you get a good sounding one that YOU like, then that IS a good guitar, Super Pro or otherwise.

Here's a link showing some work we do with the Super Pro era guitars:
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... sc&start=0

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 22 Jul 2012 11:38 am

Daniel McKee wrote: Im not looking to invest a lot of money.

and even after the maverick gets all the bad comments I would play it anywhere its been a real good guitar but I am ready to get something a little better mostly so I can have a few more knee levers I only have three on my shobud.

Why not just add a knee lever to make it 4 knees? If you need several more knees, the maverick will not accomodate that. 4 knees, and you can play alot, though.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 22 Jul 2012 2:45 pm

so what kind of problems could happen with
the pot metal fingers is it just wearing out.

Through the years I've seen a fair amount of
pot-metal fingers that had one 'side' of the
slot (for the ball end of the string) break loose,
rendering it unusable.
~Rw

Robert Daniels · Post by **Robert Daniels** » 9 Feb 2013 4:50 pm

I am having a hard time deciding about a Superpro-ish Bud. I have an Emmons student model 3x4. It was rebuilt by Mike Cass and i absolutely ADORE this guitar. I have been playing about 1.5 years and want to get a 12 string to get some lower voicings to experiment with for rock playing. I have found a beautiful custom sho-bud with a 12 string e9 neck and 10 string c6 for a reasonable price - $2500. It is custom built by Sho-Bud and has Superpro style undercarriage and changers (slotted type). I played a Superpro at Bobbe's shop and really likeD it, but I generally prefer vintage and have heard some bad press regarding them. The guitar is not local, so I can't play it first, but the shop will allow a return (expensive with shipping). I have also found an s12 Emmons for the same price, but Rosewood mica is not my favorite color. I know this will not be the last steel I purchase, but still having trouble deciding what to do. The Bud is gorgeous green tiger maple and I am interested in trying c6 - but I know I love the Emmons sound. Any feedback appreciated.

Thanks,

Robert

Paddy Long · Post by **Paddy Long** » 9 Feb 2013 6:04 pm

My Super Pro, which I got new in 1982 also had pot metal brackets where the pedal rod connected -- these would eventually slop right out, especially on the first three pedals and pedals 5 and 6 on C6th - just because of the extra useage ... so when i finally replaced my pot metal lever brackets and I changed these as well. It was a great guitar all along, but I no longer had to worry about anything breaking off in my lap.

Jeff Surratt used to have both these items available, not sure if he still does but probably worth checking with him at Show Pro.

Larry Bressington · Post by **Larry Bressington** » 10 Feb 2013 10:37 am

I would take a Super Pro any day and spend the little extra for the new parts, it's easy stuff, and go with the Alloy fingers whilst it's on a tear down, Greeeat sounding and playing beauties.

Mark Draycott R.I.P. · Post by **Mark Draycott R.I.P.** » 10 Feb 2013 10:45 am

Larry Bressington wrote:I would take a Super Pro any day and spend the little extra for the new parts, it's easy stuff, and go with the Alloy fingers whilst it's on a tear down, Greeeat sounding and playing beauties.

Does someone have alloy fingers for the Shobuds?

Robert Daniels · Post by **Robert Daniels** » 13 Feb 2013 6:20 am

Thanks for the help, guys. I decided to pull the trigger on a factory custom D10/12 with Superpro changers from Jim Palenscar. VERY excited!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 13 Feb 2013 9:47 pm

I really got spoiled with those narrow foot pedals on the Super Pro. The best pedals ever on any PSG.

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 14 Feb 2013 9:59 am

Having owned and played a Super Pro I had a love/hate relationship with it.

It had a wonderful tone, but it was temperamental and unforgiving with deviations in strings or tuning. My wife, who was also my most unforgiving critic, complained about the Super Pro's undercarriage noise that was audible from several rows back in the audience.

I eventually bought a Carter that had a Sho-Bud tone, but without the continual maintenance.

My favorite guitar of my entire career is the Carter, that had the Sho-Bud tone but with minimal maintenance.

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