New Improved Promat p/p Changer Is Here

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 22 Jun 2012 6:10 pm

same classic look, same great Promat tone ...

but a new changer...

smoother,quieter and faster action ...

Db

Dickie Whitley · Post by **Dickie Whitley** » 22 Jun 2012 6:58 pm

Interesting read Damir, I look forward to reading more info as it becomes available.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 23 Jun 2012 5:39 am

yes, so far there is not much I know about it myself, but it would be interesting to get one of those new guitars here and try it out...

Db

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 24 Jun 2012 2:21 am

Damir,

Improved in what way! Emmons have never had to improve their push pull changer - Bobbe in his newsletter said that his Emmmons original pushull was his favorite guitar.

Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 29 Jun 2012 7:20 am

Emmons made several changes to the PP guitar down through the years. They narrowed the pedal spacing, they changed the way the changers were mounted, they did away with the vol. pedal pin, they changed the pedal rods from the inserts to one piece. Who knows what changes they may have made, had the PP guitar been being made all these years. I've owned 12 or 13 PP's in my life. I loved every one of them, but they were not perfect. Let's give this guy a chance. Emmons Gtr Co pretty much abandoned the PP. They don't even carry parts for them anymore. I'm glad someone is trying to build the guitar,and IMPROVE upon it.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 11 Jul 2012 5:02 pm

Bob,

thank you for your kind words, I thought pedal steel community would be excited to welcome a quality made push pull guitar, but I did run across some negative reactions for some reason..However, I am glad that now people can buy a brand new push pull guitar if they want to.

Db

Bob Hempker · Post by **Bob Hempker** » 12 Jul 2012 4:13 am

Damir,

You're more than welcome. I don't judge a guitar until I sit down and play it. That is the bottom line. As far as innovations are concerned, if nothing ever changed or evolved, we would be in one heck of a mess.

Mirko Tomic · Post by **Mirko Tomic** » 16 Jul 2012 1:42 pm

Ten days ago,my dear friend mr.Dusan Papic called me to try his new PSG SD 10 Promat guitar.As his older guitars and this new beauty has really nice tone and touch.Beside remarkable sound ,first thing that one can notice ,is the absence of noisy sounds when pedals goes down and up and push the rod.As owner of one of the first Promat guitars I can tell you that this new changer is much better then on my guitar,and I sincerely recommend to all of you who like PP guitars.
The changer, that my friend Damir Besic displayed on this topic, features the following advantages compared to the classic changer:
-while rising the tone by pulling the string, the pulling force attacks the finger at the center of the finger. With this, bending torque moment is avoided, that would in other ways
cause twisting of the finger sideways, and produced asymmetric wear on the finger, and damage of the changer shaft. All the craftsmen who made overhauling to the PP-PSG, know
this concern.
-The pulling wire that pulls the finger produces no more friction between it and the aluminum finger for lowering the tone. That ways friction is reduced in the whole transport
mechanism.
-Last, but not least, the pulling force goes through the center point of the string mount, that influences positively the stability of staying in tonality.

-The berth of the push rod is convex-concave and maintains for the center position towards the point of attack, that wasn't the case with the standard PP changer.
-when the former changer assembly is examined, one will notice that the bushel that leans onto the Al finger for lowering the tone is almost never, or only in one position, for
a moment, pressed 100% onto the Al finger. At altering the attitude the proper seating is altered, the axis of the seating too. In the end position the bushel with its segment
leans onto the finger theoretically in one point, but in practice in one line on the edge of it's diameter. This leads to developing a striking notion that can be heard.
-The photo shows the new changer in action where the push rod is adhered to the finger for lowering the tone, with it's entire surface in any position.

As I learned from Mr. Papic, the price for the new Promat changer with these improvements will remain as it was for the classic changer.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 16 Jul 2012 3:27 pm

thanks Mirko, thats exactly what I was going to say....

Db

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 16 Jul 2012 7:52 pm

Demic,

Interesting and nicely made changer finger. The departure from the original P/P design makes me more more receptive to Pro-Mat as a guitar "in it's own right".

I think it would also be nice if Mr Papic tweaked the bell cranks to make changing tunings easier. In particular, getting rid of those "pain in the butt" "snap rings" that hold the swivels on the cranks. Hairpin-type cotter pin (like Zum-steel uses) might be nice.
http://www.fastenermart.com/html/PN157-1072.html

Also the "e-rings" that Emmons uses are fairly easy to remove and install using Clem Schmidt's (sp?) LeGrande clip removal tool.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pedal-Steel-Gui ... 415409fdc1

A couple of questions:

Are these fingers longer than the old P/P E9th finger?

Do the old Promat (Emmons-style) fingers sound any different than the new ones? (e.g. do the roll pins dampen tone or sustain?

Jack Goodson · Post by **Jack Goodson** » 17 Jul 2012 6:33 am

would this promat changer fit into an emmons pp guitar?....thanks jack

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 17 Jul 2012 10:14 am

Mirko, I'd like to thank you for a very lucid explanation of the changes to the design, along with those excellent photos, it makes it very easy to understand the new design, and they sound like very well thought out improvements. I hope I can try out one of these guitars soon.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 17 Jul 2012 2:34 pm

Mr. Papic asked me to post this on the forum.

PROMAT PP changer is different from other PP changers, fingers are somewhat longer (same case with the standard Promat changer as well as in a new improved one). Difference is also in materials used, which results in a crystal clear tone and a high quality of final finish. Modified PROMAT changer, ensures better and more precise action of complete mechanics, as well as better and more accurate action of pedals and knee levers. PROMAT will still be installing a standard PP changers on their guitars, and new improved changers will be installed on buyers request at no extra cost.

Sincerely,

Dusan Papic

Mirko Tomic · Post by **Mirko Tomic** » 20 Jul 2012 7:40 am

High Mark.It*s my pleasure.You should try this guitar.By the way,I look at pictures of your studio and it looks very nice.
Best wishes from Mirko!

Mirko Tomic · Post by **Mirko Tomic** » 20 Jul 2012 2:48 pm

Here is link where you can hear tone of this guitar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCnjhHGrsTA

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 20 Jul 2012 3:04 pm

good job Mirko, Promat shows us one more time that their guitars have an amazing tone.. I would love to see one of those guitars at St.Louis on the ISGC stage, I think people would be amazed by the tone they have...

Db

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 25 Jul 2012 5:37 pm

Jack Goodson wrote:would this promat changer fit into an emmons pp guitar?....thanks jack

i'd like to know this also. could this be a good replacement for a worn out emmons?

Mark van Allen · Post by **Mark van Allen** » 26 Jul 2012 9:10 am

If it's like the other parts of the ProMat, it'll be built with metric dimensions and parts, I don't know how much difficulty that would present in retro-fitting to a standard Emmons...

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 26 Jul 2012 11:58 am

yes, i think we know that and that is why we want to know if they'll fit the emmons. does anyone know!

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 26 Jul 2012 12:21 pm

Chris, you seem to post quite a bit without reading or thinking things through. The question, yours and Jack's, is answered above

Read the statement from Mr. Papic that is posted by Damir. The fingers, new and old, are LONGER than those on an Emmons. That, on top of the metric to standard differences, probably means they're not a drop in replacement.

CrowBear Schmitt · Post by **CrowBear Schmitt** » 26 Jul 2012 2:11 pm

in that case, Mr Papic, could offer a (non metric) specific changer for the original push pulls & make some $$$

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 26 Jul 2012 4:29 pm

well gee todd..evidently you don't know anything either.

go somewhere else to try to start an argument as you always do.

i was posting to ask a question...not to make a personal attack, unlike yourself.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 26 Jul 2012 4:46 pm

Chris, I don't see how you could misconstrue what I said into a "personal attack". Sorry, wasn't meant to be. It was a fact. The answer to your question was already here if would would have read the thread before you posted.

Have a nice evening... $:\$

chris ivey · Post by **chris ivey** » 26 Jul 2012 4:56 pm

the facts of the situation are there to a point, shedding no light on an answer yet. to insinuate that i don't read the posts and consider them before i write is a personal attack akin to a teenage punkoff. go to twitter with your crap.

Todd Brown · Post by **Todd Brown** » 26 Jul 2012 6:13 pm

Chris, if you don't see the answer to your question yet, I don't believe anyone here can help you with that. Perhaps taking a comprehensive reading course is in your future.

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