Beginner questions

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 15 Jul 2012 7:16 pm

Brand new player. Got a good guitar a 3 4 bmi s10. Set up emmons e9. Ready to learn. Going through the mark van Allen CDs 1 & 2, which are very good. Looking for two things: advice on must have books and instructional materials, and a teacher in Nashville. Any advice? More of a pop and rock guy than country, but love hearing good steel, and not against learning country. Favorite album: first dire straits if that gives you an idea. No pedal steel on tha but some really good bottleneck and volume pedal work. style on six string similar to that, so unlikely to use finger picks, but can do thumb pick ok

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 15 Jul 2012 8:24 pm

Sorry, you have to use finger picks. Can't join the club without them. No pain, no gain. Look up Mike Sweeney on Broadway. He's a good teacher. He is also a Forum member here.

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 3:28 am

Will look him up. Seriously - no one here uses just fingers?

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 16 Jul 2012 3:39 am

Fingertips only is great... but limited.

You will be missing out on a very large range of steel guitar capabilities and tones if you limit yourself to non-fingerpick performance. The spectrum of touch and tones involve pick attacks that probably cannot be accomplished with fingertips only.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Jul 2012 3:53 am

Go to Bobbe Seymour's "Steel Guitar Nashville" steel guitar store in Hendersonville. He has lots of instruction material.

He also sells finger picks, like 99% of us use.

There are some that don't use them or don't use them at times, but you are better off learning with picks. Don't try to reinvent the wheel when you are first learning.

www.steelguitar.net

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 4:32 am

I have a few sets of dunlops. I just keep getting them caught between the strings. My fear is that I will ruin my six string picking technique if I go that road. I think I just need to look at this like a completely new instrument. Wish the steel guitar store was open on weekends.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 16 Jul 2012 5:20 am

We all went through that when we started. Once you get use to wearing them (6 months) you'll wonder why you ever felt like you couldn't get use to them.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 16 Jul 2012 5:39 am

I think I just need to look at this like a completely new instrument.

It IS is a completely DIFFERENT instrument. If you do lose your six string abilities because you learned how to use finger picks on a PSG, then you really didn't have very solid six string abilities to begin with.

But, with that said, there are some that don't use them and from what I have read, most do it because of the tone they get. They are not after the attack that players using picks get. That is a decision you have to make based on what music you are going to play and the type of sound you wish to create.

I would really doubt that a player just using fingers can get the speed and clarity that a picker with finger picks can get. At least I have never heard anyone that can.

In my opinion, Dunlops are the worst pick out there (go ahead and flame, won't do any good). The curve on the flanges always caught the adjacent strings for me. I even tried trimming them and smashing them flat, but still no luck. I use Jeff Newman's picks and think they are the best, but I'm not sure they are still available. Nationals are the next best in my opinion, but they are hard for me to bend right to be comfortable. I have tried Pro-Piks and found them useless for me.

Brandon Ordoyne · Post by **Brandon Ordoyne** » 16 Jul 2012 5:42 am

Most instructional material has "grip" excercises...I still do them to this day...to get my fingers loosened up.

Just pick the triads...3-4-5, 4-5-6, 5-6-8, 6-8-10

Do this open, no pedals, no bar.

Once you get it down, then go up then down, then..push the A and B pedals down....go up and go down...then utilizing the Bar, go to the 2nd fret, and go up and down, then do it again open.

You can do this pattern up and down the fretboard...also, hearing the 1- 4- 5 chord change.

Do this up and down, this will get you to memorize the string spacings...then once you get it down...then try doing it with your eyes closed, or looking away, because you don't want to spend time always looking where you are picking, more important to know where the Bar is....This will also help you with blocking exercises....

Bruce Bouton has a good DVD that covers this....

Also, anything Jeff Newman....

Hope this helps!
Brandon

PS- It is boring...but it helps!

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 6:21 am

I was watching a sample of an instructional video of an older feller who was describing his transition into steel from six. He started with a flat pick and m a fingers. Really good player. Fascinating to watch. He would run a lick using his original technique, and then repeat using the more common technique with the finger picks. I had a hard time discerning an appreciable difference in tone. He sounded really good either way

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 6:23 am

Grips are definitely first agenda, probably with the dunlops

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Jul 2012 6:35 am

I started out with National finger picks. Went to Dunlop's for many years. Went back to National's about 10 years ago.

I'm no great lead guitar player, but picks and pedal steel hasn't really hurt my 6 string guitar playing with a flat pick.

Joachim Kettner · Post by **Joachim Kettner** » 16 Jul 2012 6:40 am

After practicing the grips, start to "transpose" the chords for "Sultans" from the guitar to your pedal steel.
Maybe you'll like it.

Lynn Fargo · Post by **Lynn Fargo** » 16 Jul 2012 6:50 am

So when you learned to drive a car, did you forget how to ride a bicycle?

I'm guessing there are a lot of good pickers on this forum who fingerpick guitar and/or banjo, and play lap steel or dobro. Initially, you need to get used to the new techniques unique to each, but after enough time, you will be able to switch from one to the other without even thinking about it, as a lot of these guys/gals do on stage. Muscle memory will eventually kick in and take over. Best of luck to you and welcome to the madness.

Bobby Snell · Post by **Bobby Snell** » 16 Jul 2012 6:59 am

Welcome, Mark.

If you aren't trying to mimic more traditional pedal steel, picks are not required. You can learn that technique later. Your interests and prior musical knowledge should give a step up on learning a new instrument; I would think translating 6-string to PSG would best be served by fretboard/pedal survey and practice, and bar technique. If you can "hybrid-pic" on 6-string, that can work for PSG.

Check out Bobbe Seymour and Daniel Lanois for two examples of players without picks. Junior Brown uses a flat-pick and 2 finger picks.

With all that, though, IMHO picks are not that hard to learn to use, and the sounds you can get are worth it.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 16 Jul 2012 8:23 am

I think the song "Water Of Love" by DS would be a good one for a beginner to play long with.

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 8:48 am

If you look on YouTube, you can find a great live version of water of love. Old concert on european television. He plays it standard tuning on his electric 6 with a capo pretty high up the neck. I hear you on that. I think that song may be the one that got me really curious about slide guitar, which eventually led me to lap and now pedal.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 16 Jul 2012 9:31 am

You can't just put a set of finger picks on and play. You have to bend the blades so they hit the strings at the right angle, and you'll be playing with the correct hand position that will allow you to block when you're ready to learn that technique. I suggest you talk to an experienced player and ask him/her to show you how to bend the picks.

I also suggest that you learn how to use finger picks on your 6 string. It's a different technique than playing with bare fingers, and will cause you to think and play differently while you're doing it. (Not unlike the way playing a jazz guitar with heavy strings will cause you to think and play differently that you would on a Tele or Strat with slinkies.)

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 16 Jul 2012 9:40 am

Kevin Hatton wrote:Sorry, you have to use finger picks. Can't join the club without them. No pain, no gain.

I think Kevin was making a joke, Mark.

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 10:26 am

That's a good point on the picks. I bet I'm not using them correctly. Will do some research on that and look for a teacher

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 16 Jul 2012 1:59 pm

I figured he wasn't serious about being banned for using fingertips, and I'm just playing for fun, but I think some really thought provoking comments from the pro-pick camp. May save some irritation later on if I think about it now. Thanks a lot for all the comments. I hope pick vs. fingertip isn't too tired of a topic.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 16 Jul 2012 2:24 pm

Marku, is that you?

Welcome!
Jmiles

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 16 Jul 2012 4:19 pm

Mark Aaron wrote:(snip)May save some irritation later on if I think about it now. Thanks a lot for all the comments. I hope pick vs. fingertip isn't too tired of a topic.

Over in steel guitar ('non-pedal') we wrang this out recently... I believe that there's more folks playing steel than pedal steel with fingers/nails.

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=229209
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=228535

I use fingernails mostly... works fine for steel, for dobro I usually put some superglue on the nail ends for extra strength. If you use nails at a gig you'd better be prepared for a nail-break... superglue is your buddy here too. Obviously I'm not doing lots of single-string runs... I can play a mean Bootheel or Panhandle without them, though.

The string spacing and, in a major way, the string tension make fingertips harder to use on pedal steel. You may notice that tight strings tear your fingers up more than loose ones, as I did. Looser strings also help with pulling/bending behind the bar, something that steel guitarists do much more than pedal steelers.

There's plenty of normal guitarists... my advice, do what feels best. If you want to emulate someone like Buddy Charleton, however:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViY2WXvVXYU

... you're going to have to go with the picks. Durn I wish I could play like that!

John Peay · Post by **John Peay** » 16 Jul 2012 6:54 pm

Another vote for Jeff Newman's picks, after trying several different brands. But mostly, just find some that you like, whatever the brand...bend 'em and tweak 'em, and play for a month with picks. After that it'll be hard to play without 'em.

Also another vote to look up Mike Sweeney in the Nashville area for some instruction...

Mark Aaron · Post by **Mark Aaron** » 17 Jul 2012 3:53 am

That Charleton video is great. Does sound bright and crisp. I was thinking that most of the speed was about the thumb pick, and dislike the difference in height of the fingers, which is why I was hoping thumb pick plus fingertips would work. I think from watching him, a lot of the effortlessness seems to come from the finger picks and hand position. Seems to minimize vertical movement and increase stability.

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