Do you prefer Pins or Slots to attach strings to the changer

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Jul 2012 7:37 pm

Personally, I prefer slots; much less trouble than getting the ball end to stay on the pin while I insert and wind the other end. But some folks seem to prefer them over slots (I dunno why)...

So, how about you? Which do you favor? Vote below!

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 3 Jul 2012 8:02 pm

I find for some reason that the ball end stays on a pin better than it stays in a slot when I'm changing strings. My Jackson's pins are actually on the inside end of the changer, so the string goes onto a pin AND wraps around the bridge, Therefore, it's not an issue for me these days anyway. But in general I've had a better experience with pins. Not a deal breaker for me either way, though.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 3 Jul 2012 8:02 pm

Pins here.
Jerry

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 3 Jul 2012 8:08 pm

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 3 Jul 2012 8:09 pm

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 3 Jul 2012 8:41 pm

....The string vibrates freely on the pin which creates a tuning fork affect which in turn allows more sustain.......Slots are best for ease of changing the string but the downside is the ball fits snuggly into a slot that does not allow the string ball to vibrate as freely as on the pin.....The string slot actually dampens the vibrations the same as if we were lightly touching the top of the bars of a tuning fork with two fingers while holding it from the bottom..........

Paul

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 3 Jul 2012 8:52 pm

Interesting point, Paul. I've never heard that before but it makes sense...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 3 Jul 2012 11:43 pm

So Paul. can we infer from your post that Franklin steels have pins? And Jim, since you have both a Franklin and an MSA (with slots) Have you noticed this?

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 4 Jul 2012 12:18 am

Mike,

The Emmons PP and the Franklin both use pins. I'm not Jim, but I have owned two slotted guitars, an MSA and a Sho-Bud...Neither brand sustained as long as my PP. When the Franklin was being designed we were going after that type of non-transparent sustain and we could not get there without the pin.

Its probably difficult to understand that a guitars tone, and sustain, is not just created from one or two elements on the guitar, it is created through the combination of a lot of little elements which add up into a significant difference at the end of the day....The pin being one of the them.

Paul

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 4 Jul 2012 12:43 am

Interesting indeed Paul.

I voted slots for ease of installation. Although, sometimes the biggest bass strings can be a bit of a hassle.

The big .080 on the Sierra 14's I owned would require some flattening with pliers in order to go in the slot properly.

OTOH, I've seen a few pins broken off.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Jul 2012 2:24 am

Other than a Fender 2000, I've only owned guitars that have pins. As I've had my Franklin since Dec 81, I'm happy with its design.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 4 Jul 2012 3:56 am

I've always at least partially contributed the superior tone of the older Sho~Buds to the fact they used pins instead of slots. Seems to me a better place for the string end to reside for vibration and sustain.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 4 Jul 2012 4:16 am

I prefer pins as I find them easier to use. I have slots on my Sho~Bud Pro 111, and the thick bottom C string on the C6 tuning is a devil to stay put in the slot while bringing it to tension. I haven't noticed any difference in the length of sustain on the 'Bud to my push pull. However, the timbre of the sustaining note is certainly different.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 4 Jul 2012 5:39 am

For me, either. Doesn't matter. Each have their good and bad points. The pins do break off. Had one break on a ZB when I was changing strings and doing the little tug to stretch the string. The slots are a real pain on the big lower strings. Had to get in with a little screwdriver an widen the slot a tad on my Carter to fit a .070 on my 10th string on C6.

Tony Williamson · Post by **Tony Williamson** » 4 Jul 2012 5:56 am

slots are a pain in the rumpus

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 4 Jul 2012 6:01 am

I have a small rubber wedge that I use to hold the ball end on the pin when I change strings. A snap to change strings.

Someone told me it was a "piano wedge". The one I have I bought years at a booth in St Louis (ISGC). The two guys were selling several gadgets and this was one of them. They were from Illinois but don't remember exactly where.

Tony Williamson · Post by **Tony Williamson** » 4 Jul 2012 6:08 am

you poke felt between the sets of strings on the piano when tuning. when you get up in the high register the felt wont fit and you use the rubber wedges.or when you need to do a quick fix before a gig on one or two keys only. i used to tune pianos for extra money as a teenager. id almost rather tune a piano than a steel.

and Paul is correct about tone. on acoustic guitars, a good adirondack top, good rosewood for the back and sides, bone nut and saddle, black locust bridgeplate,scalloped forward shifted bracing, hide glue, waverly tuners (they put more downward pressure on the nut) and maybe reduction of the popsickle brace.adds up to a killer guitar. it takes up to all of this. im not a big fan of total omission of the popsickle brace.all my guitars have fossil bridgepins.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Jul 2012 6:33 am

Speaking from a scientific perspective, any longer sustain noticed in a changer with pins might not be due to the pins, themselves, but to the reduced finger mass or size with that type of attachment. There are also different types of slot retaining systems, with some holding the ball firmly wedged in place, while others allow it to "float". Taking that into consideration, and with all the other construction factors to be considered, I think it's a hasty generalization to say that pins are sonically superior to slots.

However, if I were building a guitar, and had decided that pins were, in fact, superior, I would install two pins in each finger. The additional cost would be rather insignificant, but it would allow the owner to go on playing in the (admittedly rare) case of a pin breaking while at a gig. Nothing is more frustrating than having a piece of equipment that costs thousands of dollars out of commission for want of such an insignificant part. Respectfully, I feel the fact that many players are unwilling or incapable of replacing a pin should be taken into consideration by builders who favor this method of attachment.

Tony Williamson · Post by **Tony Williamson** » 4 Jul 2012 6:36 am

how are pins attached? welded,threaded,etc?

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » 4 Jul 2012 8:12 am

Donny,

Have you ever heard a PP mechanism with slotted fingers?....I have..Its tone was altered and a little sustain was lost..Have you heard a Sho-Bud professional mechanism with pins instead of slots? I did and the pins affect its tone and sustain....Just saying all things equal the pins (good or bad) do play a part....

At the end of the day its what the ears hear, or can not hear, that dictates which instruments we gravitate towards.

Paul

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 4 Jul 2012 8:57 am

I don't understand Paul's tuning fork analogy.

My thoughts are, with a string attached to a pin, vibrations are being transferred to the finger from two places, the top of the finger (where the string is resting) and through the pin itself.

But then, what do I know? I'm a banker!

Lee, from South Texas

Lane Gray · Post by **Lane Gray** » 4 Jul 2012 9:08 am

Tony, I've never spoken to a maker about italic, so I speak only from observation and logic, not actual knowledge.
Last I heard, you can't weld steel to aluminum, at least not easily.
I've never seen signs of threading, or adhesives, or of welding.
Having never seen any evidence of anything else, I'd always assumed they were pressed in.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Jul 2012 9:10 am

Tony,

They are called pinch-pins. They are forced into an undersized aperture. The pin is case hardened like a special spring. It features a minuscule tapered leading edge and it's slotted to allow a slight compression of the pin.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 4 Jul 2012 9:17 am

How do you change the pin when it breaks off?
When I lived in MT in the early 80's there was a Rosewood Emmons D10 for sale with one of the E9th pins broken off.
I passed on buying it for that reason.
If the internet was around back then maybe I would have found it is a quick easy fix???

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 4 Jul 2012 9:23 am

I had a pin snap off on a ZB many many moons ago. I was changing my 5th string and had the same as an earlier poster where the pin snapped as I pulled up on the new string. That would indicate that a change of pressure angle could cause the pin to shear. I bought a new case hardened pin from an engineering company, sharpened one end to a point on a grinder, drilled my changer finger just below where the old pin had sheared off and pressed the new pin in with a vice. Worked fine, but it was a pain with no 5th string for the rest of my gig when the pin snapped.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Do you prefer Pins or Slots to attach strings to the changer

Do you prefer pins or slots to attach strings to the changer?

Do you prefer Pins or Slots to attach strings to the changer